Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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FDD wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:12 pm
Like Ferrari fan I hope that at least they'll be on pair with the best
I'm sure Ferrari also does. They can't delay the ICE next year, which is the crucial part. No chance for them to measure up the competition.

f1316
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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jumpingfish wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:17 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 am
jumpingfish wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:45 pm
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 9579365384
Binotto is usually cautious about performance, "a significant upgrade" on the hybrid side sounds reassuring.
So does that mean that Ferrari would have brought the upgraded PU as the 4th PU anyway, even if Leclerc had not needed his 3rd PU for Spa already? Or would they have planned the upgraded PU to be the 3rd one without any grid penalties?
I suppose they had plans to use an improved hybrid since they started this season with engine parts from 2020. But if Leclerc's engine damage affected their plans, I don't know.
I don't understand the other. Will Honda and Mercedes have an engine upgrade before the start of 2022, or are their current specifications already revolutionary-final? Or are they just using powerful homologated engines in 2021, and updates are being prepared in the bowels of their factories that they can install before the start of 2022, but after the end of 2021? Will Ferrari find itself in the role of catch-up again? if this year they will only reduce the gap to 5-10 hp, and next year the competitors will again come with a 15-20 hp advantage.
I think you’re missing the point here: it’s not that Ferrari are bringing an upgrade in 2021 and that’s it - they ALSO get to bring a new 2022 spec engine as well (and actually, there are some components that don’t need to be finalised until September 2022).

So look at it this way:
- Ferrari are bringing 1 upgrade now + 1 in 2022 (so 2 upgrades still to come - you could argue 1.5 because the 2021 upgrade is only certain hybrid components, given they upgraded the other parts at the start of the year)
- Mercedes & Honda only have 1 upgrade m, the 2022 one, still to come (because they already upgraded all their components for 2021)

So if Ferrari cut the gap to 5-10 bhp with this coming upgrade, there’s no reason to necessarily assume that the others will stretch it again next year, since they’ll both have the same opportunity to upgrade thereafter. Indeed, you could even argue that Ferrari’s 2021 upgrade will serve as a kind of a test bed cot next year, giving them a better chance of making a step next year.

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codetower
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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f1316 wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:14 pm
jumpingfish wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:17 pm

I suppose they had plans to use an improved hybrid since they started this season with engine parts from 2020. But if Leclerc's engine damage affected their plans, I don't know.
I don't understand the other. Will Honda and Mercedes have an engine upgrade before the start of 2022, or are their current specifications already revolutionary-final? Or are they just using powerful homologated engines in 2021, and updates are being prepared in the bowels of their factories that they can install before the start of 2022, but after the end of 2021? Will Ferrari find itself in the role of catch-up again? if this year they will only reduce the gap to 5-10 hp, and next year the competitors will again come with a 15-20 hp advantage.
I think you’re missing the point here: it’s not that Ferrari are bringing an upgrade in 2021 and that’s it - they ALSO get to bring a new 2022 spec engine as well (and actually, there are some components that don’t need to be finalised until September 2022).

So look at it this way:
- Ferrari are bringing 1 upgrade now + 1 in 2022 (so 2 upgrades still to come - you could argue 1.5 because the 2021 upgrade is only certain hybrid components, given they upgraded the other parts at the start of the year)
- Mercedes & Honda only have 1 upgrade m, the 2022 one, still to come (because they already upgraded all their components for 2021)

So if Ferrari cut the gap to 5-10 bhp with this coming upgrade, there’s no reason to necessarily assume that the others will stretch it again next year, since they’ll both have the same opportunity to upgrade thereafter. Indeed, you could even argue that Ferrari’s 2021 upgrade will serve as a kind of a test bed cot next year, giving them a better chance of making a step next year.
This is what I've been arguing with my mates since the announcement. This upgrade is more for 2022 than it is for 21. They are effectively testing some of the 2022 components in a real-world test, not in the dyno, or on a simulator. Think of it as exploiting a loophole to get two upgrades for 2022 while the others get only 1.

If the upgrades don't go according to plan, they can change direction without risking homologation. Smart move in my opinion.

mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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codetower wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:45 pm
Think of it as exploiting a loophole to get two upgrades for 2022 while the others get only 1.

If the upgrades don't go according to plan, they can change direction without risking homologation. Smart move in my opinion.
Not quite though. Can't change the chassis, so they can only change parts that fit in.
Besides they said it's the "hybrid part" that gets upgraded, but the ICE is the big differentiator of the PUs. Made obvious by the spectacular regression of Ferrari after the rule clarifications and better policing implemented for fuel flow.

Also, unlike electric motors you that you can essentially fit into whatever shape you want, the ICE defines the shape/design of the chassis. If they planning on changing the ICE substantially (like moving to a split turbo) it won't fit in this year's chassis.

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:57 am
codetower wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:45 pm
Think of it as exploiting a loophole to get two upgrades for 2022 while the others get only 1.

If the upgrades don't go according to plan, they can change direction without risking homologation. Smart move in my opinion.
Not quite though. Can't change the chassis, so they can only change parts that fit in.
Besides they said it's the "hybrid part" that gets upgraded, but the ICE is the big differentiator of the PUs. Made obvious by the spectacular regression of Ferrari after the rule clarifications and better policing implemented for fuel flow.

Also, unlike electric motors you that you can essentially fit into whatever shape you want, the ICE defines the shape/design of the chassis. If they planning on changing the ICE substantially (like moving to a split turbo) it won't fit in this year's chassis.
There's big talk that this new upgrade includes an mgu h upgrade

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F1NAC
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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where do you get these sources?

ryaan2904
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F1NAC wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:20 pm
where do you get these sources?
This was spoken about by both motorsport.it and chronogp

mzso
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ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pm
There's big talk that this new upgrade includes an mgu h upgrade
Curious what they will accomplish with it. Who knows might be able recover more from the exhaust as well as run the ICE with more power. Might be a notable improvement yet.

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Zynerji
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:51 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pm
There's big talk that this new upgrade includes an mgu h upgrade
Curious what they will accomplish with it. Who knows might be able recover more from the exhaust as well as run the ICE with more power. Might be a notable improvement yet.
If they find 20 with an update, they will be the spoiler in the Championship fight.

FerrariF60
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spoiler???? hopefully in the Verstapen advantage....God forbid another WDC for Luise....

Ced
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I hope they change their mind and bring the new engine forward at their home race.

FerrariF60
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Ced wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:20 pm
I hope they change their mind and bring the new engine forward at their home race.
me too....but that would mean a grid penalty; still it would make sense to do it as we get more HP and probably still finish in better positions even with grid penalty than using the old dog engine with less power.....just my 0.02 cents worth

f1316
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Is there confirmation that this won’t come at Monza yet? I remember the original like was “not before the Italian GP”.

Ced
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f1316 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:20 pm
Is there confirmation that this won’t come at Monza yet? I remember the original like was “not before the Italian GP”.
Nope unfortunately ! But it seems some components are ready for turkey. Electronics control unit I've read.

f1316
f1316
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Ok thanks! I share the sentiment that being fast at Monza would be great, even if it comes with a 10 place penalty. Topping (or fighting for top spot) in Friday quali at Monza would be epic, even if it didn’t count as pole.

I presume grid penalties are applied to Sunday’s race not Saturday’s sprint, correct?