Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
ripper
ripper
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Ferrari didn't spend any token on this new ICE, but on an italian website Paolo Filisetti (F1 technical commentator) wrote:
La specifica di questo propulsore, è quella di Monza, ma come notorio, sono concessi una serie molto ampia di interventi “minori” a scopo di favorire l’affidabilità. In sostanza è quanto nel corso della stagione ha effettuato la Mercedes, prima di spendere in un’unica soluzione , a Monza, i sette gettoni che aveva a disposizione .

Il propulsore adottato qui ad Austin dalla Ferrari, è una versione minuziosamente sviluppata della specifica Monza, con miglioramenti nell’ambito dell’ efficienza, in termini di consumo. E’ importante notare, che sebbene Austin non sia così critica come è stata Sochi sotto questo profilo, resta comunque un tracciato tra i più severi per il consumo di carburante, al pari di Montreal. Una maggiore efficienza, corrisponde ad una minore quantità di carburante imbarcato, a favore ovviamente di un minore peso. Non stiamo ovviamente parlando di grandi numeri, ma come spesso abbiamo scritto, si tratta dell’insieme dei dettagli a fare la differenza su una Formula 1.
that can be roughly translated with:

This PU spec is the Monza's one, but as we already know, it is possible to do many "smaller" changes for reliability. This is what Mercedes already did during the season, before using all tokens at Monza.

The ICE used by Ferrari here at Austin it's a carefully developed version of Monza's spec one, with improvements in efficiency, in terms of fuel consumption. It's important to note that, even if Austin isn't as critic as Sochi about this, it's still one of the most critical circuit per fuel usage, on par with Montreal. An higher efficiency coincide with a lower amount of fuel loaded, lowering total weight. We aren't speaking about big numbers, but as we often wrote, many details can make difference on an F1 car.

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F1NAC
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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So, if they brought here only new ICE which is supposed to last till the end of the season, will they spent tokens for changing layout of MGU K and fit it before the end of the season? They said they have a lots of ideas and with the talk of making a rear end tight could make sense? How much does it cost to replacee MGUK in tokens?

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ME4ME
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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The FIA clarified they do not have to run the PU's in any official session, running it on the dyno and getting it homologated is enough for the remaining tokens to be used this year. So I expect Ferrari will do just that. That way they don't have to develop a new gearbox etc this season. They can do it over the winter and take their time.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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I think the Ferrari engine is now on par with Mercedes...
Their chassis is the weakness. In the Texas rain they weren't that competitive but in the dry Vettel caught Nico.
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LionKing
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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When Ferrari follows a Mercedes engined car you can see Ferrari losing out in acceleration. Vettel was stuck behind Perez for many laps at Austin. I think Mercedes engine is still noticeably better than Ferrari.

ferkan
ferkan
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Not sure I agree on that they were loosing on acceleration against Toro Rosso as well. Looked to me as if their tires were gone...Both of them were sliding all over the place on intermediates.

notsofast
notsofast
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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So, it seems that STR will be getting the 2015 spec PU from Ferrari. Help me think through this. Ferrari developed their engine for the 2015 season. They built 8 of them. Four for each car. And that's it. That particular design will never be used again, and serves no purpose in Ferrari's other business. Yet, they agree to build more of these, just for their "customers", i.e., STR and Haas. It seems to me that it is quite a distraction to build two types of engines for one season. Not only do you have to build them, but you have to test them (to make sure they work), and so on. There's a lot of human capital involved in maintaining all that knowledge and those essentially duplicate procedures. I can't see any upside except that their customers will get a less competitive engine. And even then, I'm not so sure this one advantage outweighs all that overhead. My view is probably quite naive, but I think I would prefer to just have my entire team focused on a single engine each season.

Any thoughts on this?

ripper
ripper
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Haas and Sauber should get 2016 spec, while TR the 2015 one. Ferrari probabily got a fair amount of million € from STR and maybe had some spare parts for the 2015 spec.

wuzak
wuzak
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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notsofast wrote:So, it seems that STR will be getting the 2015 spec PU from Ferrari. Help me think through this. Ferrari developed their engine for the 2015 season. They built 8 of them. Four for each car. And that's it. That particular design will never be used again, and serves no purpose in Ferrari's other business. Yet, they agree to build more of these, just for their "customers", i.e., STR and Haas. It seems to me that it is quite a distraction to build two types of engines for one season. Not only do you have to build them, but you have to test them (to make sure they work), and so on. There's a lot of human capital involved in maintaining all that knowledge and those essentially duplicate procedures. I can't see any upside except that their customers will get a less competitive engine. And even then, I'm not so sure this one advantage outweighs all that overhead. My view is probably quite naive, but I think I would prefer to just have my entire team focused on a single engine each season.

Any thoughts on this?

Ferrari used 5 for each of the works cars and 4 for each of the Saubers.

There may have been 4 different specs used during the season, and the one that STR will get next year is likely the one that never got raced.

Who knows how many test and spare engines Ferrari built?

In terms of next season, my understanding is that the lead time on some components specifically for the 2016 power unit was such that accommodating STR into the 2016 program would have been difficult, and may have affected the development program.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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They are working their ass of, to get all the latest succesful developments in that new spec engine, So time is short to manufacture the engines, from the finalized blueprint. Building 4 more engines, will be a allot mor work im that little time.

By building a previous spec, they havr all the time to built it.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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scarbs wrote:Its likely that the Ferrari may move away from the centre intercooler for 016, also James Key has said in the past that the floating sidepods arent his idea of a good aero solution.
I think that is the crucial element of their Pu arrangement witch is different than anybody else and conceptually is not far from what Merc and Honda are doing. Even you mr scarb said that. :D (just teasing) Even further. The concept serve the purpose very well (less lag, spooling MGUH, easier air cooling packaging placement).

I believe the most possible PU 059/5 change will be indeed;

-moving the MGUK at side of ICE. Not anymore in clutch-bell like on 059/3 (2014) and 059/4 (2015 unit).

Overall i expect just:
-minior tweeks everywere around ERS-H, combustion and compressor plumbing.

So if the rumors about similar Power figures in comparison with Merc are true. They need just shave the thermal part of design to catch them on efficiency. I believe on races their are still behind in that matter: Italy GP was notably.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Guys i itentionally dont metion the rummor about more compact ICE block with use so called mono-block solution.

1. I don't believe there is anything huge to to gain already. Because i don't believe they use sleeve cylinders.
2. I don't see huge development gain to use sleeve cylinder in racing application? You are not allowed to do any repair work or development work on internals during homologation period. In any case you serve penalty because you broke the FIA seals or you must use development token to make changes.
3. Yes the cost of surface anti friction manufacturing will be drastically smaller but for what gain? Ferrari don't have problems with money to DLC block internals (that is quite old technology so there no exclusion they use some sort more advanced nano-like method).
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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I agree.

I think everybody is using the cast-in liners. Much lighter and compact than sleeves and who repairs F1 engine blocks anyways?
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Brian Coat
Brian Coat
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Cast-in?

Why not run in parent metal with appropriate platings/coatings?

Also "everybody" must be excluded if the Merc has a m/c'd from solid block as has been stated on here (although this statement opens an interesting puzzle as to the deck structure / block cooling approach chosen).

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PlatinumZealot
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By cast-in i mean when they have a very thin lining material with a rough surface on the back-side bonded under high pressure into the lighter material which makes up the block is cast around it. I read that BMW and Toyota use this technique to make some of the lightest cylinder blocks on the market.
I am not sure how the sprayed on liners compare though.
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