I'm very interested by this statement. Why can't MGUH have road car applications?PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
I'm also wondering this. Couldn't the cost come down in time or is it another problem?Postmoe wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 13:18I'm very interested by this statement. Why can't MGUH have road car applications?PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
It is an amazing piece of engineering, indeed, but it is neither extremely complex nor ultra-fragile. I can think of few other subsystems being higher in those categories, like turbocharger.PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23(...) The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
Silliest thing I've read here in a long time.PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
And electric motors are cheapMrPotatoHead wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 15:19Silliest thing I've read here in a long time.PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
The MGU-H is extremely exciting when it comes to the prospect of use in Road Cars and the aftermarket in race cars.
I've actually thought about starting a company in this area because it is so exciting.
You only have to look at Bosch who already offer electronic supplementary superchargers (fitted in Audi Turbo Diesels) to see that this technology will emerge before too long in the real world.
Plug in electric cars are not the future (not anytime soon anyway) - the future of more efficient road cars is the use of ERS systems (both kinetic and heat) to improve engine efficiency while still having a usable range.
I'm working with an OEM right now on this same subject and the predicted production numbers for Hybrid KERS based cars vs Plug In doesn't even compare.
Exactly. Not only that but it makes packaging easier.FW17 wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 16:06And electric motors are cheapMrPotatoHead wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 15:19Silliest thing I've read here in a long time.PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
The MGU-H is extremely exciting when it comes to the prospect of use in Road Cars and the aftermarket in race cars.
I've actually thought about starting a company in this area because it is so exciting.
You only have to look at Bosch who already offer electronic supplementary superchargers (fitted in Audi Turbo Diesels) to see that this technology will emerge before too long in the real world.
Plug in electric cars are not the future (not anytime soon anyway) - the future of more efficient road cars is the use of ERS systems (both kinetic and heat) to improve engine efficiency while still having a usable range.
I'm working with an OEM right now on this same subject and the predicted production numbers for Hybrid KERS based cars vs Plug In doesn't even compare.
It makes sense to have a electric turbine generator and electric super charger separately, will simplify the electronic controls to a certain extent.
Have a look at some of the engineering challenges of building the MGUH. The electronics and materials are nuts! Road cars also don't operate in the constantly high loaded mode like a race car so there would be little waste heat to recover.MrPotatoHead wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 15:19Silliest thing I've read here in a long time.PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
The MGU-H is extremely exciting when it comes to the prospect of use in Road Cars and the aftermarket in race cars.
I've actually thought about starting a company in this area because it is so exciting.
You only have to look at Bosch who already offer electronic supplementary superchargers (fitted in Audi Turbo Diesels) to see that this technology will emerge before too long in the real world.
Plug in electric cars are not the future (not anytime soon anyway) - the future of more efficient road cars is the use of ERS systems (both kinetic and heat) to improve engine efficiency while still having a usable range.
I'm working with an OEM right now on this same subject and the predicted production numbers for Hybrid KERS based cars vs Plug In doesn't even compare.
I'm' surprised cars haven't made the leap into higher voltages already.MrPotatoHead wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 16:22I think the OEM Bosch units I mentioned are running at 48V.
The MGUH doesn't affect combustion directly, but it does indirectly by controlling the turbo, which means you can control airflow into the engine, as well as pressure ratios,(which affects cylinder pressures) intake pressure and exhaust back pressure, all things that are integral to the combustion process.PlatinumZealot wrote: β14 Nov 2017, 00:23The compression ratios as far as people on this website estimate.. are in the range of maybe 16:1 and higher.... Maybe guru or Wazari can give more insight. The engines are still spark ignition obviously, but they achieve a sort of quasi-homogeneous combustion using jet-fired ignition.
The MGUH doesn't affect the combustion itself, but it is the most expensive, cutting edge, most computationally demanding, fragile, assembly on the car that adds to the whole "green" initiative but nearly zero to road relevance and race spectacle.
You can't really compare an engine that was designed so long ago to modern F1 engines.Sieper wrote: β13 Nov 2017, 17:11but then again, plonk an engine "that dominated for a decade" in a current car (for arguments sake let's disregard it wouldn't meet current regulations) and see the car struggle. The current level of integrations of different specialties is just on such a different level. I do agree with your point that the creative power of a small team is lost, but how can you still meet the requirements of a designing a current gen engine with a small team, it is just undoable. If you could find a way, have such a great team then yes, you could still gain a great advantage by harnassing their skills.
In my own field of expertise (ERP Software) we are also way past this point, you can only know/understand a small fraction of the workings.
I suggest that you follow Taffin comment about PU.Mansell89 wrote: β15 Nov 2017, 03:47Guys just looking for some clarification re: the Renault PU for next year.
I have read two contrasting interviews from Cyril that have left me unsure.
Originally I read an article that said Renault would have a large upgrade for 2018 and that they would not be able to bring it forward to 2017. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.crash. ... 2018%3famp
However, there then seemed to be the idea that it was 2017 where they made a lot of change (hence reliability issues this year) and that basically we would see regular updates and performance-related gains. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13123 ... e-for-2017
Can anyone provide any clarity on whether there is a big change in architecture or design for 2018?
Does anyone hold hope that they can get close to the Merc/Ferrari level?
As far as I am aware, and from what I've read from Abiteboul throughout the season is Renault had a change in engine concept this year and will continue with this in 2018, at the start he said they would have 3 or 4 noticeable hardware upgrades throughout the season, however as the season progressed, he retracted that and said there would be no or minimal hardware changes this year and would only be providing engine management or minor upgrades. NOW though he is claiming Renault will make a noticeable step in 2018.Mansell89 wrote: β15 Nov 2017, 03:47Guys just looking for some clarification re: the Renault PU for next year.
I have read two contrasting interviews from Cyril that have left me unsure.
Originally I read an article that said Renault would have a large upgrade for 2018 and that they would not be able to bring it forward to 2017. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.crash. ... 2018%3famp
However, there then seemed to be the idea that it was 2017 where they made a lot of change (hence reliability issues this year) and that basically we would see regular updates and performance-related gains. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13123 ... e-for-2017
Can anyone provide any clarity on whether there is a big change in architecture or design for 2018?
Does anyone hold hope that they can get close to the Merc/Ferrari level?