Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
carisi2k
31
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:48 pm

Blackout wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:55 pm
Albert Fabrega is good. But IMHO his second source is more correct; Renault is ahead pf the Honda, atleast in Q.
And AMuS datas tend to correlate that.
I compared every 2019 qualy speed trap with the 2018 ones and there is a constant; the Renault powered cars make the biggest gains on the straight lines* compared to 2018 (often by quite a margin) and they always have very competitive straight line speeds this year, even against "lower drag" cars...
*In Baku every team was slower in that regard (because of the higher drag in 2019 probably) but the Renault lost the least amount of kmh compared to 2018.
In Montreal their gains are a bit smaller than usual but even with a bigger RW, the Enstone car had better speed traps than the Toro Rosso in Q again... https://i.imgur.com/Be3fORI.jpg
The supposed small Honda advantage doesnt add up. and the canada Q speed trap sheet isnt an exception it's similar to many others.
(S3)
https://i.imgur.com/9uBsMw3_d.jpg?maxwi ... ity=medium
I don't think that speed chart proves anything in regards to engine power since both mercedes are down the bottom of the lists on the speed trap reading. I think this list shows which cars are low drag and which ones are high drag.

SmallSoldier
75
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by SmallSoldier » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:55 am

The “drag race” between Norris and Max showed that Renault May have an slight advantage... Max had a better exit out of corner and overtook Norris, none of the cars benefited from a “tow” and even though Max was clearly ahead at the beginning, Norris reeled him in and passed him at the end of the straight...

Max ended up passing Norris when he had brake failure.

Stroll and Kvyat overtook Sainz before the last lap on tires way fresher than Sainz and with DRS (Stroll in the back straight and Kvyat in the main straight since Sainz didn’t had a clean exit of the last chicane after been passed by Stroll).

In any case, the Renault PU doesn’t seem to be lacking much... Holding Bottas behind and been overtaken by Max when he pitted for fresher Medium Tires vs the worn Hard tires from the Renault’s.


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PowerandtheGlory
7
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:52 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PowerandtheGlory » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:29 am

Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:54 pm
PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:18 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:21 am
There is at the moment very little difference in HP between the 2. Latest gps data was Honda up by 7hp I think. That is really the only “evidence” And since Renault has made reliability improvement (which means more hp to be used).

I think I gave Fair factors on how the Norris contra overtake happened, no need to ridicule me.
Not ridiculing you Sieper, just humouring you with the Groundhogs.

There seems to be plenty of Data on both sides to dispute the performance claims of both Renault and Honda PU's

This site posts some speeds after Quali which read very favourably for Renault;

https://f1i.com/news/343863-montreal-sp ... m-all.html

And yet on the Official FiA site the data seems to be different..

So, if we can remove the Quantative data, and look at the subjective qualitative data..

There was some good speed and HP and performance shown by the Renault Engines at a race track sensitive to PU power. The works renault cars split the Redbulls in a race distance with all factors included, traffic etc.

But still got lapped by the leaders... Objective and unbiased
OK, Fair enough! Plussed that. Sometimes I need to lighter up, always think people are out to get me whilst it could just as well be a good intended bit of humour.

Thanks for the data, but to me the problematic part is always interpreting how that data came into being.

It does seem (to me) that this year indeed Renault is making strides. After Some reliability issues the power now indeed seems increased.
Ahhhh... no problem buddy :D ..the FiA page for race classification and speed traps seems to have duff links at the minute so i cant quote the info.

You'd expect that the FiA data would be a good place to get info- because anything the teams say probably has gone through a bit of PR first..
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

Blackout
656
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:12 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blackout » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 pm

carisi2k wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:48 pm
Blackout wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:55 pm
Albert Fabrega is good. But IMHO his second source is more correct; Renault is ahead pf the Honda, atleast in Q.
And AMuS datas tend to correlate that.
I compared every 2019 qualy speed trap with the 2018 ones and there is a constant; the Renault powered cars make the biggest gains on the straight lines* compared to 2018 (often by quite a margin) and they always have very competitive straight line speeds this year, even against "lower drag" cars...
*In Baku every team was slower in that regard (because of the higher drag in 2019 probably) but the Renault lost the least amount of kmh compared to 2018.
In Montreal their gains are a bit smaller than usual but even with a bigger RW, the Enstone car had better speed traps than the Toro Rosso in Q again... https://i.imgur.com/Be3fORI.jpg
The supposed small Honda advantage doesnt add up. and the canada Q speed trap sheet isnt an exception it's similar to many others.
(S3)
https://i.imgur.com/9uBsMw3_d.jpg?maxwi ... ity=medium
I don't think that speed chart proves anything in regards to engine power since both mercedes are down the bottom of the lists on the speed trap reading. I think this list shows which cars are low drag and which ones are high drag.
Read what your interlocutors write before answering...
I'm not using a single shart and I'm comparing every FIA Q trap to 2018. And when every shart says the same thing; there is consistency, a trend...
Yeah obviously if Merc have often """modest""" speed traps compared to others, especially this year, it's not because their engine is weak but because their car generate a lot of df and drag. But Merc is a different case because it's Merc while Williams is Williams...
Renault wasnt running with a monaco aero setup in every track between 2016 and 2018, then decided to only run a Monza aero setup in evey gp this year... the big gains that the Renault powered cars make in the straight (especially the Renault, because Enstone tends to favor df while Mclaren focued on lowering the drag this year) are obviously due to the PU gains, that's a fact that has been confirmed by the drivers, other insiders etc.

ReoPTy
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:44 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ReoPTy » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:08 pm

from engine side renault supposed to reach around 20kw more before the end of this season, with the delayed parts due to conrod issues wil it happen with the spec3 ? ????

restless
16
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 8:12 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by restless » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:28 pm

Blackout wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 pm

Yeah obviously if Merc have often """modest""" speed traps compared to others, especially this year, it's not because their engine is weak but because their car generate a lot of df and drag. But Merc is a different case because
You lost it right there.
Merc is different... so how do we know if Renault didn't go "lower DF" this year? Or RB went "higher DF" ?
In fact a RB engineer claimed they ran Canada with higher than optimal DF cause of issues with chassis stabilty - so should we claim everything that doesn't fit your view as false?!

Renault improved the engine - fact.
How much of gains are from engine and how much from lower Df - we don't know.
Use this chart when Ferrari and Renault qualify above Mercedes.

lio007
270
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by lio007 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:25 am

New Spec3 PU for RIC!

bosyber
28
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by bosyber » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:36 am

So, similar strategy as Honda then, for much the same reasons: tight midfield, so any gain in qualifying helps, while tyres/strategy and track are more determining of getting higher point-results than a penalty at some races (and with the top so far away, no point in trying to catch up to them in points, but getting as close as possible in pace is worth it, also bc. it makes start next year better).

Jambier
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Location: France

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Jambier » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:16 pm

Actualy it is Spec B, Spec 3 is Honda

So first real evolution on performance for Renault expected

PhillipM
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PhillipM » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:47 pm

Should be the first real performance update from the new 'Super-Dyno' they installed.

toraabe
13
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:42 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by toraabe » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:57 pm

I have to say that Renault has to be pleased with Mc Laren today. It proves that they at least has got the power to be up in the front. Congratulations

Jambier
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Location: France

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Jambier » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:32 am

I think Renault has made real good progress with the engine.

They are very close to Mercedes one in races. That's good =D>

Now Enstone and Woking can really now how far behind they are on chassis' side

PowerandtheGlory
7
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:52 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PowerandtheGlory » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:59 am

Jambier wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:32 am
I think Renault has made real good progress with the engine.

They are very close to Mercedes one in races. That's good =D>

Now Enstone and Woking can really now how far behind they are on chassis' side
I think you could add Maranello & all the other teams on the chassis side. Merc are unstoppable.. they are making everyone look a bit pony..
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

toraabe
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Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:42 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by toraabe » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:18 pm

Jambier wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:32 am
I think Renault has made real good progress with the engine.

They are very close to Mercedes one in races. That's good =D>

Now Enstone and Woking can really now how far behind they are on chassis' side
Yes

They gained 50-60 hp this year, so in race trim they are more or less equal with MB and Ferrari.
They have no problems overtaking both MB and Ferrari powered cars, so the power is there.
The Mc Laren is the best of the two renault powered cars, and it is really nice to see that they at least has got the engine they deserved. I suppose Renault got back some of their people that went to Mercedes.
So they have really done a great job in Viry the last two years. Another thing is that Mc Laren is fully backing them, and you have never heard anything but positivty from Woking.

rogazilla
14
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:35 pm

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by rogazilla » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:48 pm

toraabe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:18 pm
They gained 50-60 hp this year, so in race trim they are more or less equal with MB and Ferrari.
They have no problems overtaking both MB and Ferrari powered cars, so the power is there.
The Mc Laren is the best of the two renault powered cars, and it is really nice to see that they at least has got the engine they deserved. I suppose Renault got back some of their people that went to Mercedes.
So they have really done a great job in Viry the last two years. Another thing is that Mc Laren is fully backing them, and you have never heard anything but positivty from Woking.
You mean Quali trim. It doesn't look like that power level is sustained in race trim. Hulk couldn't pass with DRS. Now looking forward to the next upgrade to have stronger race trim.