Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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_cerber1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm
Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-more- ... amoto.html
Honda needs big headlines and words in the press to motivate its leadership to extend its Formula 1 program beyond 2021. That is why, even in winter, they declared that they were completely equal to MB in power, although after the first races they had to take their words back.

AMuS measurements indicate that Renault is more powerful than Honda by 5 hp.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... i-schwach/

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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_cerber1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:02 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm
Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-more- ... amoto.html
Honda needs big headlines and words in the press to motivate its leadership to extend its Formula 1 program beyond 2021. That is why, even in winter, they declared that they were completely equal to MB in power, although after the first races they had to take their words back.

AMuS measurements indicate that Renault is more powerful than Honda by 5 hp.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... i-schwach/
5HP!!! Imagine a media publication somehow having tools THAT sensitive to determine a 5hp difference from 1000hp engines.

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diffuser
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:57 am
Lots of rumblings out there that Renault are now the number 2 most powerful PU. That both Ferrari and Honda have been hurt by the new fuel sensors and regs.
Where did you hear Honda were hurt by the sensor regulations? They're making more power than last year and along with RB, probably instigated the new reg in the first place by pointing the finger at Ferrari. Highly unlikely!

Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-more- ... amoto.html

We can't base these claims from just Monza which plays to Renaults low df strengths.
As for Renault's reliability I'm not 100% convinced just yet, (just as I am of Mercedes MGU-K, something weird there and Honda's questionable map settings, they seem pretty knife edge like they're trying something) Daniel is on his final ICE which was changed a couple of weekends ago due to issues with the previous one. So that has to last to the end now.

Power unit elements used tells nothing apart from date of introduction, not expiry. As far as I'm aware Honda have all their components available bar a pair of control electronics. There's been no failures except for Max's software issues, and even then, no component failures.

I'm all for banter, but can the chats keep a morsel of fact about them?
Don't remember if it was or sky sports before the start of the race Sunday of F1 audio that comes with the timing app....I was switching back and forth.

They said Honda seems to have fallen far behind Merc from where they were last year. They went on to say that RBR have started to almost openly complain about the lack of power. Saying stuff like we're loosing 6 tenth on the straights.

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Walkman wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:59 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm

Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.
Just like that famous power graph putting themselves in front of renault while casually ignoring the huge jump in power Renault made that winter.

Fact is Honda will never accept that they are behind Renault, because RB will never accept that, and because they spend a --- ton more than Renault on their PU program. On track it's clearly another story. The Honda is the only engine having massive clipping issues.

On peak power most insiders put the Honda third.

Everybody has a different opinion in the end but if the Honda is really in front of the Renault, man did RedBull and AT --- up badly !
That's a little disingenuous. Honda have been the only manufacturer to openly admit they are behind when they are. Renault were running around saying they were the most powerful on the grid last year!!! Abiteboul is the embodiment of "playing to the media", his words are usually extremely vain and exaggerated and he has gained the reputation to pretty much ignore what he says.

"Fact is Honda will never admit they are behind Renault". Rubbish, they spent a couple years admitting that, then made clear strides beyond, that's an unfair claim. And the only people unhappy with "that graph", for whatever reason like it's a personal shot in the back, are the people in this thread.. the media at the time had no qualms in backing that and it wasn't even for the public eye! It was an internal discussion and the slide was leaked. Imagine a scenario where internally talking nonsense with false figures and being completely deluded to your staff who are trying to increase competitiveness was Honda's goal.. it wasn't media pandering..

"On peak power most insiders put the Honda third." - Amazing. Which insiders and where? The whole season until Monza/Spa these same "insiders" placed Honda much stronger during race conditions. Suddenly we have Monza & Spa where the Renaults were fast on the straights and suddenly we get tragics coming out of the woodwork screaming "obviously Renault is number 2, look at their straightline speed"... It's a pointless metric at Monza and frankly if that's all we are looking at, they were slower than the AT's anyway?

Everybody has a different opinion in the end but if the Honda is really in front of the Renault, man did RedBull and AT --- up badly ! - I don't know about AT? They are looking really quite strong and the fastest they ever have been and mixing it with a midfield that has made a huge jump this year and are catching Red Bull. RB though, I'll be the first to say they have ****ed up. The car was a total dog for much of the season with a shocking rear end and was no faster than last years car, they're still trying to get on top of it. But we get the usual Christian style line of "you see, we are still learning the car and getting on top of it's quirks" every GP.

I'm not smacking Renault and agree everyone has a different outlook on the situation entirely but if anything, the difference is marginal between both, to the point these enormous claims on here that "Renault are clearly beyond Honda" because we have some eager members who watched the Monza and Spa speed traps but suddenly forgot the rest of the season get excited, is a little... :roll:
Last edited by GhostF1 on Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:39 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:57 am
Lots of rumblings out there that Renault are now the number 2 most powerful PU. That both Ferrari and Honda have been hurt by the new fuel sensors and regs.
Where did you hear Honda were hurt by the sensor regulations? They're making more power than last year and along with RB, probably instigated the new reg in the first place by pointing the finger at Ferrari. Highly unlikely!

Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-more- ... amoto.html

We can't base these claims from just Monza which plays to Renaults low df strengths.
As for Renault's reliability I'm not 100% convinced just yet, (just as I am of Mercedes MGU-K, something weird there and Honda's questionable map settings, they seem pretty knife edge like they're trying something) Daniel is on his final ICE which was changed a couple of weekends ago due to issues with the previous one. So that has to last to the end now.

Power unit elements used tells nothing apart from date of introduction, not expiry. As far as I'm aware Honda have all their components available bar a pair of control electronics. There's been no failures except for Max's software issues, and even then, no component failures.

I'm all for banter, but can the chats keep a morsel of fact about them?
Don't remember if it was or sky sports before the start of the race Sunday of F1 audio that comes with the timing app....I was switching back and forth.

They said Honda seems to have fallen far behind Merc from where they were last year. They went on to say that RBR have started to almost openly complain about the lack of power. Saying stuff like we're loosing 6 tenth on the straights.
Yeah I heard that radio message to Max. I don't think it was a shot either, Max's race engineer is not the one who will make the decision to put pressure on Honda in the media about their performance neither is it whoever controls which messages to broadcast to the public. It is genuine driver feedback in that "we are 1.1s a lap behind driverX, 6 tenths is on the straights mate". Just implies Max needs to find 5 tenths elsewhere.
I don't think that was a subliminal shot at all to be honest. It's just truth and info a driver needs.

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diffuser
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:21 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:02 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm
Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-more- ... amoto.html
Honda needs big headlines and words in the press to motivate its leadership to extend its Formula 1 program beyond 2021. That is why, even in winter, they declared that they were completely equal to MB in power, although after the first races they had to take their words back.

AMuS measurements indicate that Renault is more powerful than Honda by 5 hp.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... i-schwach/
5HP!!! Imagine a media publication somehow having tools THAT sensitive to determine a 5hp difference from 1000hp engines.
I'm not gonna get dragged into the private parts size comparison.

I do take issue with Honda giving away their PU for nothing and then threating to leave the sport for financial reasons.

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:05 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:21 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:02 pm


Honda needs big headlines and words in the press to motivate its leadership to extend its Formula 1 program beyond 2021. That is why, even in winter, they declared that they were completely equal to MB in power, although after the first races they had to take their words back.

AMuS measurements indicate that Renault is more powerful than Honda by 5 hp.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... i-schwach/
5HP!!! Imagine a media publication somehow having tools THAT sensitive to determine a 5hp difference from 1000hp engines.
I'm not gonna get dragged into the private parts size comparison.

I do take issue with Honda giving away their PU for nothing and then threating to leave the sport for financial reasons.
I'll agree entirely with this. It is frustrating and you can almost sense half the board are not even remotely interested in racing and the other half are dire for it. RB need to give them a little more to stay, title sponsorship, Japanese driver at AT. If we see Red Bull Honda as the entry name next year. They'll stay.

Back to Renault though, i'm very intrigued at this "new engine for 2022". Do we know if the architecture is changing? Or if it is just a fresh redesign.

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_cerber1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:21 am
5HP!!! Imagine a media publication somehow having tools THAT sensitive to determine a 5hp difference from 1000hp engines.
You should not cling to the numbers, the main thing is that after analyzing AMuS sees the difference in performance between PU Renault and Honda, priority is on the side of the French.

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etusch
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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_cerber1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:07 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:21 am
5HP!!! Imagine a media publication somehow having tools THAT sensitive to determine a 5hp difference from 1000hp engines.
You should not cling to the numbers, the main thing is that after analyzing AMuS sees the difference in performance between PU Renault and Honda, priority is on the side of the French.
It needs very comprehansive analise with solid data to see 5 hp's performance difference right? I don't think even teams can be sure about when numbers so close. You are not talking about 50 hp. But lets assume it is true. It is just 5 hp and it can be neutralised by another performance item of whole structure.
But I accept that Renault and Honda are close and I respect them they are doing their own job.

selvam_e2002
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:48 am
Walkman wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:59 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm

Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.
Just like that famous power graph putting themselves in front of renault while casually ignoring the huge jump in power Renault made that winter.

Fact is Honda will never accept that they are behind Renault, because RB will never accept that, and because they spend a --- ton more than Renault on their PU program. On track it's clearly another story. The Honda is the only engine having massive clipping issues.

On peak power most insiders put the Honda third.

Everybody has a different opinion in the end but if the Honda is really in front of the Renault, man did RedBull and AT --- up badly !
That's a little disingenuous. Honda have been the only manufacturer to openly admit they are behind when they are. Renault were running around saying they were the most powerful on the grid last year!!! Abiteboul is the embodiment of "playing to the media", his words are usually extremely vain and exaggerated and he has gained the reputation to pretty much ignore what he says.

"Fact is Honda will never admit they are behind Renault". Rubbish, they spent a couple years admitting that, then made clear strides beyond, that's an unfair claim. And the only people unhappy with "that graph", for whatever reason like it's a personal shot in the back, are the people in this thread.. the media at the time had no qualms in backing that and it wasn't even for the public eye! It was an internal discussion and the slide was leaked. Imagine a scenario where internally talking nonsense with false figures and being completely deluded to your staff who are trying to increase competitiveness was Honda's goal.. it wasn't media pandering..

"On peak power most insiders put the Honda third." - Amazing. Which insiders and where? The whole season until Monza/Spa these same "insiders" placed Honda much stronger during race conditions. Suddenly we have Monza & Spa where the Renaults were fast on the straights and suddenly we get tragics coming out of the woodwork screaming "obviously Renault is number 2, look at their straightline speed"... It's a pointless metric at Monza and frankly if that's all we are looking at, they were slower than the AT's anyway?

Everybody has a different opinion in the end but if the Honda is really in front of the Renault, man did RedBull and AT --- up badly ! - I don't know about AT? They are looking really quite strong and the fastest they ever have been and mixing it with a midfield that has made a huge jump this year and are catching Red Bull. RB though, I'll be the first to say they have ****ed up. The car was a total dog for much of the season with a shocking rear end and was no faster than last years car, they're still trying to get on top of it. But we get the usual Christian style line of "you see, we are still learning the car and getting on top of it's quirks" every GP.

I'm not smacking Renault and agree everyone has a different outlook on the situation entirely but if anything, the difference is marginal between both, to the point these enormous claims on here that "Renault are clearly beyond Honda" because we have some eager members who watched the Monza and Spa speed traps but suddenly forgot the rest of the season get excited, is a little... :roll:
this should go to Honda page not in Renault. :D

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diffuser
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:16 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:05 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:21 am


5HP!!! Imagine a media publication somehow having tools THAT sensitive to determine a 5hp difference from 1000hp engines.
I'm not gonna get dragged into the private parts size comparison.

I do take issue with Honda giving away their PU for nothing and then threating to leave the sport for financial reasons.
I'll agree entirely with this. It is frustrating and you can almost sense half the board are not even remotely interested in racing and the other half are dire for it. RB need to give them a little more to stay, title sponsorship, Japanese driver at AT. If we see Red Bull Honda as the entry name next year. They'll stay.

Back to Renault though, i'm very intrigued at this "new engine for 2022". Do we know if the architecture is changing? Or if it is just a fresh redesign.
The pictures blackout posted suggest the already have split turbo running on the dyno.

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Big Tea
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:55 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:39 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm


Where did you hear Honda were hurt by the sensor regulations? They're making more power than last year and along with RB, probably instigated the new reg in the first place by pointing the finger at Ferrari. Highly unlikely!

Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-more- ... amoto.html

We can't base these claims from just Monza which plays to Renaults low df strengths.
As for Renault's reliability I'm not 100% convinced just yet, (just as I am of Mercedes MGU-K, something weird there and Honda's questionable map settings, they seem pretty knife edge like they're trying something) Daniel is on his final ICE which was changed a couple of weekends ago due to issues with the previous one. So that has to last to the end now.

Power unit elements used tells nothing apart from date of introduction, not expiry. As far as I'm aware Honda have all their components available bar a pair of control electronics. There's been no failures except for Max's software issues, and even then, no component failures.

I'm all for banter, but can the chats keep a morsel of fact about them?
Don't remember if it was or sky sports before the start of the race Sunday of F1 audio that comes with the timing app....I was switching back and forth.

They said Honda seems to have fallen far behind Merc from where they were last year. They went on to say that RBR have started to almost openly complain about the lack of power. Saying stuff like we're loosing 6 tenth on the straights.
Yeah I heard that radio message to Max. I don't think it was a shot either, Max's race engineer is not the one who will make the decision to put pressure on Honda in the media about their performance neither is it whoever controls which messages to broadcast to the public. It is genuine driver feedback in that "we are 1.1s a lap behind driverX, 6 tenths is on the straights mate". Just implies Max needs to find 5 tenths elsewhere.
I don't think that was a subliminal shot at all to be honest. It's just truth and info a driver needs.
I heard the message and assumed it was the pit 'counting down' in a chase. You know, like 1.3 seconds behind, you will get DRS soon here is the gap, sort of thing. I did not take it as an actual measure of performance.
But I was not looking for it either, so could be anything
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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henry
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:21 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:02 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:16 pm
Regardless it's worth noting Honda place themselves 2nd. It's unlike them to claim such a thing based on nothing. Frankly, it's unlike them to be this forward at all to be honest.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-more- ... amoto.html
Honda needs big headlines and words in the press to motivate its leadership to extend its Formula 1 program beyond 2021. That is why, even in winter, they declared that they were completely equal to MB in power, although after the first races they had to take their words back.

AMuS measurements indicate that Renault is more powerful than Honda by 5 hp.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... i-schwach/
5HP!!! Imagine a media publication somehow having tools THAT sensitive to determine a 5hp difference from 1000hp engines.
Not just tools, but data. A 0.5kph error in wind speed and bang goes 5hp. The only source of true wind speed is the car itself. I doubt that teams share that.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Peak HP doesn’t even matter. It is all about how much time a powerunit can deliver such peak power.

saviour stivala
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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‘’Peak HP doesn’t even matter. It is all about how much time a power unit can deliver such peak power’’. Spot-on. Fully agree on that one.