Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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siskue2005
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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carisi2k wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:26 am
PhillipM wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:53 pm
There is no way on earth Honda is gonna outsource/sell all the PU knowledge they've spent so much on. It's just not the way Honda does things, they keep all their engineers and research in house when they can.
This is why I suspect the later is likely to happen. It doesn't matter how good the Renault power unit is their is too much bad blood between Red Bull and Renault for them to ever team up again.

My worry is that the Renault PU has progressed so much that I wonder if Daniel is making the right decision to go to Mclaren.
Mclaren in 2021 will have Mercedes engines

ReoPTy
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Renault engine didn't met the expectations till 2018, so we can understand RB bitterness, Abitboul is just unable to lead a big team, but since renault engine shown it is on par with the mercedes, seeing sainz or Daniel performing better than the pink mercedes can confirm this, Renault changed this year thier chassis staff and it brings some results, so having a mercedes engine isn't a pass to victory as it could have been in 2015, today lots of peoples left AMG and Cowell isn't a litle name. Mercedes today performance doesn't come from PU, it comes from their uncredible Chassis , so who could challenge them on this point in near futur? Red Bull !
Next year abitboul will be the lead of Alpine, not Renault F1 as engine viry will stay under Renault Sport brand, we can imagine a partnership between PU division and RED BULL , Stoll and Marko not involving Abitboul into the mix! Max and RB chassis made Honda Shining , but they have the datas about how improved the renault PU last mounths, on power and reliability, in a way that made them 4 titles champions when they used it in the past! would be smart to swap RB PU with renault for 2021 and then AT in 2022, RB knows well Renault engine chassis needs it is about the same shapped as 2018!

selvam_e2002
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ReoPTy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:26 am
Renault engine didn't met the expectations till 2018, so we can understand RB bitterness, Abitboul is just unable to lead a big team, but since renault engine shown it is on par with the mercedes, seeing sainz or Daniel performing better than the pink mercedes can confirm this, Renault changed this year thier chassis staff and it brings some results, so having a mercedes engine isn't a pass to victory as it could have been in 2015, today lots of peoples left AMG and Cowell isn't a litle name. Mercedes today performance doesn't come from PU, it comes from their uncredible Chassis , so who could challenge them on this point in near futur? Red Bull !
Next year abitboul will be the lead of Alpine, not Renault F1 as engine viry will stay under Renault Sport brand, we can imagine a partnership between PU division and RED BULL , Stoll and Marko not involving Abitboul into the mix! Max and RB chassis made Honda Shining , but they have the datas about how improved the renault PU last mounths, on power and reliability, in a way that made them 4 titles champions when they used it in the past! would be smart to swap RB PU with renault for 2021 and then AT in 2022, RB knows well Renault engine chassis needs it is about the same shapped as 2018!
"Max and RB chassis made Honda Shining "

Indeed. I 100% agree with it. Renault engine is better than Honda. If Renault develop chassis match with RB they may little bit closer to Mercedes.

I do see that the DAS system giving extra tenth to Mercedes. in 2021 No DAS and 10% reduction in down-force. so we may close the gap to Mercedes.

In 2022 is a normalization year. The gap to Mercedes going to very less may be 2tenth.

with Alonso in Renault, if they have decent car in 2022, there is a chance of repeating of 2007 and 2008.

Hope also can get least one WDC before final farewell.

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_cerber1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Image

Walkman
Walkman
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Damn... That exhaust manifold is something else.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Very impressive insultion on the headers there.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Unlike Merc and Honda, idk about Ferrari. It seems Renault(or McLaren if they made the exhaust) puts the collector right on the turbine inlet.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ReoPTy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:26 am
Renault engine didn't met the expectations till 2018, so we can understand RB bitterness, Abitboul is just unable to lead a big team, but since renault engine shown it is on par with the mercedes, seeing sainz or Daniel performing better than the pink mercedes can confirm this, Renault changed this year thier chassis staff and it brings some results, so having a mercedes engine isn't a pass to victory as it could have been in 2015, today lots of peoples left AMG and Cowell isn't a litle name. Mercedes today performance doesn't come from PU, it comes from their uncredible Chassis , so who could challenge them on this point in near futur? Red Bull !
Next year abitboul will be the lead of Alpine, not Renault F1 as engine viry will stay under Renault Sport brand, we can imagine a partnership between PU division and RED BULL , Stoll and Marko not involving Abitboul into the mix! Max and RB chassis made Honda Shining , but they have the datas about how improved the renault PU last mounths, on power and reliability, in a way that made them 4 titles champions when they used it in the past! would be smart to swap RB PU with renault for 2021 and then AT in 2022, RB knows well Renault engine chassis needs it is about the same shapped as 2018!
Abiteboul's new post might be one in the same thing.

Rmember Toto wolf and Haug were both leading AMG sporting division and F1 at the same time. Luca Dimontezemolo (spelling!) was basically in charge of the F1 team and Ferrari production cars at the same time. What I am saying is that Abiteboul WILL still be in the picture no matter how we want to slice it. I do not think this is a bad thing by any means.

Cecil has proven himself throughough his f1 stint. At caterham he guided the team to be the most sensible of the three starter teams. And at Renault he guided them on an upward trajectory each year with only last year being a blip due to unreliabilty and that was down to new engine archtecture which is understandable.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:09 pm
Unlike Merc and Honda, idk about Ferrari. It seems Renault(or McLaren if they made the exhaust) puts the collector right on the turbine inlet.
Huh. Mercedes has no external collector if you want to put it that way! The three pipes are joined pretty much right up into the turbine housing on that engine.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:52 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:09 pm
Unlike Merc and Honda, idk about Ferrari. It seems Renault(or McLaren if they made the exhaust) puts the collector right on the turbine inlet.
Huh. Mercedes has no external collector if you want to put it that way! The three pipes are joined pretty much right up into the turbine housing on that engine.
Image

You're right!

Image

Honda does seem to have a pipe after the collector, you can see the O2 sensor on it. That may be just for packaging reasons.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Could Mercedes have built themselves a "Tri-scroll" turbo? Sounds crazy... But maybe additional weight is overcome by the benefits. Their volute does seems a bit chunky near the exducer side :idea:

In a straight four or straight six you can use twin scrolls by grouping up cylinders into a pair. But for V-6 it would be impossible to do it in an even way for twin scroll without crossing headers from opposite banks together which would be very untidy.

For a tripple scroll however you can neatly align each scroll to each runner for the best divisuon of pules for each bank of the V6.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:51 pm
Could Mercedes have built themselves a "Tri-scroll" turbo? Sounds crazy... But maybe additional weight is overcome by the benefits. Their volute does seems a bit chunky near the exducer side :idea:

In a straight four or straight six you can use twin scrolls by grouping up cylinders into a pair. But for V-6 it would be impossible to do it in an even way for twin scroll without crossing headers from opposite banks together which would be very untidy.

For a tripple scroll however you can neatly align each scroll to each runner for the best divisuon of pules for each bank of the V6.
It's possible, and would explain why they would use unequal length primaries. So as to pulse tune the exhaust. One thing I've learned is that if you have a combustion in the exhaust, the length and bend in the pipe has huge influence in the flame and overpressure in the pipe.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

trinidefender
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:26 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:51 pm
Could Mercedes have built themselves a "Tri-scroll" turbo? Sounds crazy... But maybe additional weight is overcome by the benefits. Their volute does seems a bit chunky near the exducer side :idea:

In a straight four or straight six you can use twin scrolls by grouping up cylinders into a pair. But for V-6 it would be impossible to do it in an even way for twin scroll without crossing headers from opposite banks together which would be very untidy.

For a tripple scroll however you can neatly align each scroll to each runner for the best divisuon of pules for each bank of the V6.
It's possible, and would explain why they would use unequal length primaries. So as to pulse tune the exhaust. One thing I've learned is that if you have a combustion in the exhaust, the length and bend in the pipe has huge influence in the flame and overpressure in the pipe.
They look equal length to me

gruntguru
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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You mean a 6 - scroll turbo? Unlikely to be any benefit.

One scroll for up to 3 even-firing cylinders avoids any blowdown pulse interfering with the exhaust stroke of another cylinder.
je suis charlie

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I wonder if the exhaust manifold fire in the McLaren has something to do with the way the engine is supposed to run. Maybe they burn a little fuel in the exhaust manifold on purpose.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee