Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
User avatar
PlatinumZealot
513
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:40 pm
If you have fuel to spare because your combustion process has rendered the fuel limit irrelevant(could easily do the average race with 90kg of fuel), you may as well try to squeeze all the water out of that stone(20kg of fuel to play with and acting as extra weight in the car). Probably even easier to do now because of the "one mode to rule them all" rule.

Even if you're using 105kg that's still 5kg of fuel to play with.

I can't remember the last time I heard a team tell the driver you're low on fuel, or you need to think about saving fuel. Do you?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6113001519

"Results show that the momentum difference per unit area between the turbine inlet and outlet plays an important role in the power extraction, while the pressure peak of the detonation has little effect. The equivalence ratio of fuel and air mixture and the transition structure between PDC and turbine are also important to the power extraction of the turbine. The present work is promising as it suggests that the performance benefit of a PDC–turbine hybrid engine can be realized by increasing the momentum difference per unit area through the optimal design of transition section between the PDC and turbine."

In other words the kinetic force of the pressure wave increases turbine speed, but not the pressure peak. Not a problem in a mixed flow turbine.
Note... you are talking about delayed ignition of the gas from a highly compressed state, causing a pressure peak.
Releasing fuel on it's own without this compression, is just deflagration. So you have to be clear if you "popping" the gas to the turbo like anti-lag with delayed ignition.. or just flat out spraying fuel in the manifold.

OK so lets say you do achieve your high peak pressure waves and the turbine seems to be fine (for now) there is one thing you have to consider now. Your MUGH has to react fast enough to utilize this sudden pulse. The examples posted are not MUGH turbos, just compressor wheel stuff under relatively light load - nicely cushioned.

I still think that extra fuel is still better used for combustion no matter how you wanna dice it. Excess fuel? Burn it away in the engine. You will get at least 500% more energy out of it that way, than burning it in the turbine to convert mechanical to Electrical energy to chemical energy and back again. Again we have clear visual evidence that this is not being done. No smoke or flames coming out these cars.

I don't mind being wrong. Just haven't' convinced me yet. it's not like the fuel is gonna go away in the tank. it is there being stored until you need it. Just like a battery. So why burn it to send it to another storage? I don't get it.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Level:
Octo-God
/—\
| 8 |
\—/

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
513
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

gruntguru wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:45 am
You mean a 6 - scroll turbo? Unlikely to be any benefit.

One scroll for up to 3 even-firing cylinders avoids any blowdown pulse interfering with the exhaust stroke of another cylinder.
Yes, three scrolls per inlet. Uninterrupted pluses.
It could have some benefits....

Borg Warner seemed to like the idea... :twisted:

Image


On serious note. Single scroll does have better top end power than double-scroll (per volute) I am thinking for F1 they have single scroll (per volute and two scrolls since the turbines have two volutes).
Level:
Octo-God
/—\
| 8 |
\—/

User avatar
Blackout
908
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:12 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Reliable people say the fully new PU will come in 2022.

So the 2021 PU might be a B version of the 2020 PU which already was a B version of the 2019 PU according to the team*.

But less proven sources say:
"2021 is a first step towards 2022.
Very high operating temperature, high power, increased flexibility and very different electrical management"

*for example, in 2020 Renault retained the same intake plenum as 2019 for the first time in the hybryd era. They used to redesign the plenum completely in every winter.
Or maybe it's because they finaly found the 'perfect plenum design' for their engine : P
2019 --> 2020 Renault - 2020 Mclaren
Image

GoranF1
GoranF1
184
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:53 am
Location: Zagreb,Croatia

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Few Mercedes PU fellas switched to Renault recently, under the radar.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
-2
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:52 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

may be off topic questions. Need experts advice. I hope there are people in the group to give me some information.

The Renault Duster 110 PS has frequent injector failure within 10000 km of running.

The injector used in the Renault is from Continental and it uses pizo electric to open and close the nozzle.

Is the frequent injector failure could be due to ECM coding or engine wiring or injector itself. Any idea?

User avatar
lio007
368
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

GoranF1 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:56 pm
Few Mercedes PU fellas switched to Renault recently, under the radar.
Do you have more details?

User avatar
Blackout
908
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:12 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Ask Mudflap and Goron from autosport (or is Goron=Goran?)

User avatar
Big Tea
153
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:23 am
may be off topic questions. Need experts advice. I hope there are people in the group to give me some information.

The Renault Duster 110 PS has frequent injector failure within 10000 km of running.

The injector used in the Renault is from Continental and it uses pizo electric to open and close the nozzle.

Is the frequent injector failure could be due to ECM coding or engine wiring or injector itself. Any idea?
Probably aggravated by start up/shut down and temperature variation, which the F1 car will not have to anywhere near the extent. Then again, they will not have the benefit of lubrication the Duster has.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

User avatar
godlameroso
516
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

The quartz cracks, injector stops working.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
-2
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:52 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:39 pm
The quartz cracks, injector stops working.
Thanks Guys. I have failed injector with me. Is it possible to check if the quartz cracked? can this due to wrong voltage supply to quartz from ECM(engine control unit or module) can this be a program bug in ECM? or engine wiring which sending wrong freq and voltage to injector? or the material used in injector such as quartz is not in good quality.

User avatar
godlameroso
516
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:20 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:39 pm
The quartz cracks, injector stops working.
Thanks Guys. I have failed injector with me. Is it possible to check if the quartz cracked? can this due to wrong voltage supply to quartz from ECM(engine control unit or module) can this be a program bug in ECM? or engine wiring which sending wrong freq and voltage to injector? or the material used in injector such as quartz is not in good quality.
Resistance check would be my guess. I don't know the specs off my head.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

User avatar
RedNEO
27
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post


User avatar
PlatinumZealot
513
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:20 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:39 pm
The quartz cracks, injector stops working.
Thanks Guys. I have failed injector with me. Is it possible to check if the quartz cracked? can this due to wrong voltage supply to quartz from ECM(engine control unit or module) can this be a program bug in ECM? or engine wiring which sending wrong freq and voltage to injector? or the material used in injector such as quartz is not in good quality.
Hmm i know those injectors are very complicated. Simpler mechanical injectors can be rebuilt with new parts on the inside. But something electrical with peizo... I am not sure. Are you interested in finding the failure mode?
Wrong voltage to the injector is unlikley unless someone changed the wiring to something crazy. (the voltage is already limited from inside the ECU).

Injector failure could be from sludge or poor fuel quality too. High heat from the engine Or as you said too high a duty cycle or maybe even 100% duty cycle if someone tried to test it with a high enough non-varying voltage?
Level:
Octo-God
/—\
| 8 |
\—/

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
-2
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:52 am

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:49 am
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:20 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:39 pm
The quartz cracks, injector stops working.
Thanks Guys. I have failed injector with me. Is it possible to check if the quartz cracked? can this due to wrong voltage supply to quartz from ECM(engine control unit or module) can this be a program bug in ECM? or engine wiring which sending wrong freq and voltage to injector? or the material used in injector such as quartz is not in good quality.
Hmm i know those injectors are very complicated. Simpler mechanical injectors can be rebuilt with new parts on the inside. But something electrical with peizo... I am not sure. Are you interested in finding the failure mode?
Wrong voltage to the injector is unlikley unless someone changed the wiring to something crazy. (the voltage is already limited from inside the ECU).

Injector failure could be from sludge or poor fuel quality too. High heat from the engine Or as you said too high a duty cycle or maybe even 100% duty cycle if someone tried to test it with a high enough non-varying voltage?
Thanks! I doubt that fuel could be an issue because it is happening for only limited Renault duster 110 PS not all of them. I am trying to find the root cause of the issue.

Is ECM firmware/coding can be an issue? is it sending wrong info to injector which eventually causing an failure?

User avatar
Big Tea
153
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:20 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:49 am
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:20 pm


Thanks Guys. I have failed injector with me. Is it possible to check if the quartz cracked? can this due to wrong voltage supply to quartz from ECM(engine control unit or module) can this be a program bug in ECM? or engine wiring which sending wrong freq and voltage to injector? or the material used in injector such as quartz is not in good quality.
Hmm i know those injectors are very complicated. Simpler mechanical injectors can be rebuilt with new parts on the inside. But something electrical with peizo... I am not sure. Are you interested in finding the failure mode?
Wrong voltage to the injector is unlikley unless someone changed the wiring to something crazy. (the voltage is already limited from inside the ECU).

Injector failure could be from sludge or poor fuel quality too. High heat from the engine Or as you said too high a duty cycle or maybe even 100% duty cycle if someone tried to test it with a high enough non-varying voltage?
Thanks! I doubt that fuel could be an issue because it is happening for only limited Renault duster 110 PS not all of them. I am trying to find the root cause of the issue.

Is ECM firmware/coding can be an issue? is it sending wrong info to injector which eventually causing an failure?
My guess (only a guess) is vibration or heat cycling. The cost of getting it professionally examined will be more than the injector's coat
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.