Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Their problem has been inefficient combustion, it's easy to tell because their engine note is deeper pitched than all the others, meaning they're already running less timing advance than other engines. Can't blame them really, I don't think they've invested nearly as much as the other engine manufacturers have. Right now I imagine they're desperately trying improve their combustion concept as well as engine cooling as it seems that's their real weakness.

I wonder if Renault took the money they were spending in sponsoring Red Bull and re-invested it in their engine program.
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djos
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Let's hope they used the money to write Ilmor a really large check!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

trinidefender
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote: it's easy to tell because their engine note is deeper pitched than all the others, meaning they're already running less timing advance than other engines.
And winner of generalised blanket statement of the year with little evidence goes to.....

Yes the theory for most of the year has been that they have been having most of their issues with the combustion concept, however how can you apply such as a statement that their engine note is deeper so they must be running a less than ideal timing advance on their ICE? You do remember that there is a turbine which will seriously dampen the noise created, the wastegate said and countless other variables.

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Listen to the Renault engine and all the others, the only real difference is in the wastegate plumbing and the exhaust manifolds, the exhaust pipe after the turbo is pretty much the same for everyone. So the only things that could be causing a deeper pitch is a.)different ignition timing(i.e. more retarded than others), or b.)mis-timing of the exhaust pulses in the manifold/collector(I doubt they'd mess this up). The wastegate shouldn't affect the pitch of the exhaust note under normal circumstances.

Perhaps different charge air cooling would influence ignition timing as well, which would make sense since each team designs their own intercooler piping, and radiators for engine cooling. Again these things would affect engine note by allowing different degrees of timing based on the efficiency of the cooling system, also fuel would affect this as well.
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trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:Listen to the Renault engine and all the others, the only real difference is in the wastegate plumbing and the exhaust manifolds, the exhaust pipe after the turbo is pretty much the same for everyone. So the only things that could be causing a deeper pitch is a.)different ignition timing(i.e. more retarded than others), or b.)mis-timing of the exhaust pulses in the manifold/collector(I doubt they'd mess this up). The wastegate shouldn't affect the pitch of the exhaust note under normal circumstances.

Perhaps different charge air cooling would influence ignition timing as well, which would make sense since each team designs their own intercooler piping, and radiators for engine cooling. Again these things would affect engine note by allowing different degrees of timing based on the efficiency of the cooling system, also fuel would affect this as well.
You are ignoring the turbocharger turbine completely. A different design turbine may dampen higher frequency noises more so therefore it may sound deeper to you.

Each engine does use different exhaust manifolds, that will change the sound of the exhaust.

toraabe
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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trinidefender wrote:
godlameroso wrote:Listen to the Renault engine and all the others, the only real difference is in the wastegate plumbing and the exhaust manifolds, the exhaust pipe after the turbo is pretty much the same for everyone. So the only things that could be causing a deeper pitch is a.)different ignition timing(i.e. more retarded than others), or b.)mis-timing of the exhaust pulses in the manifold/collector(I doubt they'd mess this up). The wastegate shouldn't affect the pitch of the exhaust note under normal circumstances.

Perhaps different charge air cooling would influence ignition timing as well, which would make sense since each team designs their own intercooler piping, and radiators for engine cooling. Again these things would affect engine note by allowing different degrees of timing based on the efficiency of the cooling system, also fuel would affect this as well.
You are ignoring the turbocharger turbine completely. A different design turbine may dampen higher frequency noises more so therefore it may sound deeper to you.

Each engine does use different exhaust manifolds, that will change the sound of the exhaust.
The different sound of the Renault engine is mostly down to the Turbo layout, manifold length and the wastegate.
This year will be different... with separate wastegate exhausts..

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djos
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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djos wrote:Let's hope they used the money to write Ilmor a really large check!
Can somebody please explain to me how me wanting Mario to be able to throw his companies full development resources behind Renault's efforts to produce a competitive PU for all Renault powered teams is worthy of a down vote?

Seriously!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Maybe they think that he's no engine savior, what is clear is that Renault is going to start throwing money at the engine, something they really weren't doing before. They almost seem desperate for talent to get them out of their hole.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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They still need someone to save them from the Germans(Mercedes), and the Japanese(Honda), and the Italians(Ferrari), it's an axis of evil I tells ya.
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Pierce89
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:Their problem has been inefficient combustion, it's easy to tell because their engine note is deeper pitched than all the others, meaning they're already running less timing advance than other engines. Can't blame them really, I don't think they've invested nearly as much as the other engine manufacturers have. Right now I imagine they're desperately trying improve their combustion concept as well as engine cooling as it seems that's their real weakness.

I wonder if Renault took the money they were spending in sponsoring Red Bull and re-invested it in their engine program.
Uhhhm.... last year the Merc was by far the deepest. so dId it have..... inefficient combustion ? I'm not doubting the overall assertion, just the route by which you got there.
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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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It was not the deepest, well I'll let you get a good listen then you can come to your own conclusions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJtsZz ... 13&index=1
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hemichromis
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Renault engines always sounded much deeper to me, almost dull.

Mercedes engines sound bigger but they are definitely stronger in higher harmonics

The Honda engine to me sounded the best, closer to the scream we were once used to.

Most obvious on the onboards.

Brian Coat
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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It would be very convenient if you could compare combustion performance and ignition advanced of the different cars by listening to their exhaust notes - but you can't.

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djos
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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mclaren111 wrote:
djos:
They must have been really big fans of French food, wine and art to invade them twice in the space of 50 years
It was the wonderful French ladies :lol: :lol:
Yeah French girls are pretty nice, and the accent is a real knee weakener too!
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wuzak
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:It was not the deepest, well I'll let you get a good listen then you can come to your own conclusions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJtsZz ... 13&index=1
I think he meant in 2014, when the Mercedes used a log exhaust.

The sound was deeper, but was also awful.