Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Vortex37
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Vortex37 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:01 pm

turbof1 wrote:
WilliamsF1 wrote:When you say FIA it means Charlie

How many staff does FIA have to clear these reliability requests?

Are they qualified to inspect and rule on these reliability requests or just a grease monkey like Charlie who probably gives a ruling looking at the wallet
I am not making comments on who in the FIA clears the request. Could be Charlie, could be a different team of persons.

However, the FIA is not the only one inspecting this. Reliability requests get passed around to the other teams (manufacturers?), who can actually veto the request if they feel it's a hidden performance upgrade.

Mostly they don't though. Facts Only explained to me a while ago that generally let things pas since if they veto something, chances are they'll be vetoed on their turn when they have a request. It is a shark sport, but fortunaly on that level they leave each other at relative ease. Of course there boundaries, and an obvious performance upgrade described as a reliability upgrade will be vetoed.
@WilliamsF1

http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/cref-baujo.html Just an example of who is on the scrutineering/technical team. More than qualified to make technical decisions.

J.A.W.
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by J.A.W. » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:48 am

Any news on what failed in Ricardo's mill?

Or contingency for his Renault mill - to allow a competitive season (points scoring) in current F1 racing ?
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Thunder » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:29 am

J.A.W. wrote:Any news on what failed in Ricardo's mill?

Or contingency for his Renault mill - to allow a competitive season (points scoring) in current F1 racing ?
According to AMuS the Piston Rod (or rather the Pin connecting the Rod to the Piston) failed, the same problem as Verstappens blow up.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 46023.html
Last edited by Thunder on Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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evered7
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by evered7 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:34 am

Thunders wrote:
J.A.W. wrote:Any news on what failed in Ricardo's mill?

Or contingency for his Renault mill - to allow a competitive season (points scoring) in current F1 racing ?
According to AMuS the Piston Rod failed, the same problem as Verstappens blow up.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 46023.html
Considering that they didn't have this issue last season (or did they) why would they suddenly face such a problem in the second year of the formula?

It would make sense that they have issues in ERS part of the PU but Renault was the one who pushed for this formula and I expected them to at least get the ICE right.

Strange.

Facts Only
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Facts Only » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:50 am

Thunders wrote:
J.A.W. wrote:Any news on what failed in Ricardo's mill?

Or contingency for his Renault mill - to allow a competitive season (points scoring) in current F1 racing ?
According to AMuS the Piston Rod (or rather the Pin connecting the Rod to the Piston) failed, the same problem as Verstappens blow up.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 46023.html

I cant see how they are getting problems with such a fundemental engine component, this is really odd. Bad batch of material maybe? Or some previously undiscovered engine vibrations causing failure? Or maybe even reduced manufacturing quality of outsourced parts?
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by turbof1 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:58 am

Facts Only wrote:
Thunders wrote:
J.A.W. wrote:Any news on what failed in Ricardo's mill?

Or contingency for his Renault mill - to allow a competitive season (points scoring) in current F1 racing ?
According to AMuS the Piston Rod (or rather the Pin connecting the Rod to the Piston) failed, the same problem as Verstappens blow up.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 46023.html

I cant see how they are getting problems with such a fundemental engine component, this is really odd. Bad batch of material maybe? Or some previously undiscovered engine vibrations causing failure? Or maybe even reduced manufacturing quality of outsourced parts?
If I personally had to guess, it would be undiscovered engine vibrations. Renault already made comments on it right after the Chinese GP (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118479), saying they can't fix it right away, nor could they prevent it from happening again. If it was a bad batch, they could have flown over new parts for Kvyat and Verstappen, who had to inject new ICEs for Bahrain anyway. The fact Renault told they couldn't fix it inmediately tells me its a structural problem.

I can't see how you'd even want to compromise on quality in the least for such a crucial component, even if outsourced. A bad batch is always possible, but not on so many engines.
#AeroFrodo

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:46 pm

multisync wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:
By the sound of things Renault has an incapable, inflexible, or barren engineering team.

or you have no understanding of how engineering works...?
I am an engineer. People make the difference. You would be surprised how many engineers are out of their depth in any organization. The best tools mean nothing if you dont have the right people using them. Why do you thino teams head hunt engineers from other teams? try to understand that first before you puke your ignorance all over this thread.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by turbof1 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:51 pm

PZ has a point; to put it in simple terms: the abysmal situation Renault is in has to come from somewhere. Not having the correct people at the correct place means things will be screwed up.

But that's a tangen; the topic is about the technical aspects of the power unit, not about the people working on it.
#AeroFrodo

gruntguru
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by gruntguru » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:41 pm

Piston pin failure suggests a design issue in that part or either of the two parts connected to it - the piston and the connecting rod. Most like ly scenario IMO is a piston redesign on the new engine leading to an overstressed pin.
je suis charlie

toraabe
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by toraabe » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:21 am

As I see it is maybe not the piston itself that has a faulty design, but the lack of the wastegate puts so much back pressure on the ICE at high revs, causing knocking and together with a faulty designed cylinder head..

Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Blackout » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:26 pm

The lack of a wastegate?
Dont know for 2015, but in 2014 the definitely had a wastegate.

toraabe
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by toraabe » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:08 pm

Blackout wrote:The lack of a wastegate?
Dont know for 2015, but in 2014 the definitely had a wastegate.
Maybee they have indeed, but as I said it could be too high back pressure causing the piston to fail due to temperature....hence the lean mixture and so on .....

Vortex37
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Vortex37 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:50 pm

Blackout wrote:The lack of a wastegate?
Dont know for 2015, but in 2014 the definitely had a wastegate.
http://www.renaultsportf1.com/?lang=en click on Energy F1 2015 Both sub links have relevant info, if they are giving us the real information. Having said that, they seem to be much more open with information, than any other manufacturer, which is really nice. =D>

gruntguru
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by gruntguru » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:55 am

toraabe wrote:As I see it is maybe not the piston itself that has a faulty design, but the lack of the wastegate puts so much back pressure on the ICE at high revs, causing knocking and together with a faulty designed cylinder head..
It would be unusual for knock to damage the pin but not the piston.

Pin failure means they have probably gone too light somewhere. Weight reduction in the rod, pin and piston is very beneficial but catastrophic if you go too far.
je suis charlie

dren
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by dren » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:56 pm

Blackout wrote:The lack of a wastegate?
Dont know for 2015, but in 2014 the definitely had a wastegate.
Renault F1 Website states:
The MGU-H is also used to control the speed of the turbocharger to match the air requirement of the engine (eg. to slow it down in place of a wastegate or to accelerate it to compensate for turbo lag.)
I don't see that being the cause. I would guess it is more related to the internal component designs.

Adding a wastegate could be a 'simple' fix if it was the case.
Honda!