Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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hemichromis wrote:That was a rumor perpetrated by TheJudge13 among others but is not allowed under the current rules.

The engines must be the same.
They were already doing that last year, the engine is called a Tag and Renault is not referred to by name for that specific purpose.

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FW17
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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There were some regulation for this year that there can be installation differences of the same unit.

Not quiet sure what that means.

hemichromis
hemichromis
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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I looked into this last year after looking at the possibility of Red bull running a Renault ICE with their own ERS components.

The regulations state that a manufacturer can only supply one specification of power unit.
This was later relaxed to allow manufacturers to re-homologate a previous years power unit. This was of course done to facilitate the Toro Roso-Ferrari deal.

Red Bull adding their own ERS does NOT make the Manufacturers.
Red Bull's PU is marked Tag for political reasons.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Red Bull already have their own KERS and other components as well as very different positioning. Apart from the ICE it effectively was and is a very different unit.

The Tag rebadging is about an awful lot more than politics. The deal they wanted from Ferrari and Mercedes was to fork the base engine and allow them to homologate their own design should they choose at a later date. Red Bull's engine situation was an awful lot more complicated than anyone thought because they wanted freedom to go in their own direction free from what manufacturers wanted to give them. They didn't want to get a substandard engine they couldn't win with. It's why Ferrari were eventually willing to offer a 'technical partnership'. Few picked up on the significance of what was going on and few even know what the current Renault or Red Bull relationship is. Mario Ilien is still contracted by Red Bull, but works on Renault's engine.......

As it is, Renault and Red Bull are effectively resource sharing and they haven't made the kind of investment they have with AVL only to shelve it. TheJudge was right, but people just haven't read properly into what has gone on.

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Juzh
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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munudeges wrote:Red Bull already have their own KERS and other components as well as very different positioning
They don't.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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They do.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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It's amazing how little people seem to actually know about this unit. Mind you, that's not really a shock.

hemichromis
hemichromis
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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munudeges wrote:Red Bull already have their own KERS and other components as well as very different positioning. Apart from the ICE it effectively was and is a very different unit.

The Tag rebadging is about an awful lot more than politics. The deal they wanted from Ferrari and Mercedes was to fork the base engine and allow them to homologate their own design should they choose at a later date. Red Bull's engine situation was an awful lot more complicated than anyone thought because they wanted freedom to go in their own direction free from what manufacturers wanted to give them. They didn't want to get a substandard engine they couldn't win with. It's why Ferrari were eventually willing to offer a 'technical partnership'. Few picked up on the significance of what was going on and few even know what the current Renault or Red Bull relationship is. Mario Ilien is still contracted by Red Bull, but works on Renault's engine.......

As it is, Renault and Red Bull are effectively resource sharing and they haven't made the kind of investment they have with AVL only to shelve it. TheJudge was right, but people just haven't read properly into what has gone on.
Source please!

Without sources what can we do with your claims apart from weight them against official sources and discount them!

Mario Ilien was contracted to Red Bull last year, in December he signed a contract with Renault, he has said this himself.

The only was for Red bull to have a different PU is if they become an engine manufacturer. The regulations make that very unlikely.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Juzh wrote:
munudeges wrote:Red Bull already have their own KERS and other components as well as very different positioning
They don't.
Yes!

That discussion was closed in ABD by Charlie last year. The POWER UNIT most be the same: So the components that RB cannot touch are:

a) ICE = 1,6L V6 engine + VLIM and its intake plenum integration
b) Turbo and compressor positioning
c) construction of ERS H and K electromotors
d) strictly accordingly by rules exhaust from ICE towards TURBO are part of PU and cannot changed. But in this point Charlie leave the customers to do little alterations, but that must be "no performance gain" (arguably yes). So the legality is hard to prove so we saw little iterations in those directions. Manly this approach use Rb vs. Lotus in the past. No Ferrari and Merc customers use that ever.
e) PU CE control electronics (inverters etc.)
f) ES energy storage

But they could change:

1) The all intake plumbing with inter-coolers (air-air or water-air whatever). Without braking b or c point above
2) Exhaust exit = that is pipe from turbine!!! So that include waste-gate, but that most not interfere with TURBO construction (no clash with b point).
3) All external plumbings: water coolings, ES+ERS coolers, electrical looms, electronics position could be altered all over the car (but not change in construction point e)
4) free choice for Heat shielding over allover the PU components and same is for coatings
5) SOFTWARE
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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gandharva
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Thank you! I was about to write a similar post, but you beat me. Let's please concentrate on facts and stop spreading those wrong rumors from TJ13!

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Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Aleks_ader is r_ght.

Taffin also says Renault used what was learned from the 'spec D' (the incomplete Brazil upgrade) as a base for 2016. He adds that the rest of the upgrades they couldnt use in Brazil, will be introduced in the first grand prix (GP in plural).
Based on other interviews, I guess Renault today is only using a tweaked version of the Brazilian spec D ICE and has developed the spec D turbo further more in the dynos in order to introduce it in Melbourne...
New battery is much more advanced than the old cheap ones according to Autohebdo.

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Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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They also say Renault was aiming for more than 80% efficiency for the turbine in 2015 but backpressure was robbing too much power from the engine for several reasons...

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Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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AH also says 75% turbine efficiency would bring around 53hp electric while 80% equates 94hp, but I dont know where these numbers exactly come from.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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aleks_ader wrote:That discussion was closed in ABD by Charlie last year. The POWER UNIT most be the same: So the components that RB cannot touch are:
I think you need to read the wording of what you've written and work out the obvious loopholes.........

It is *not* a Renault that is in the back of that Red Bull, which is why it isn't called one - and the way Red Bull personnel refer to 'our power unit supplier' is deliberate. It's right in front of you......... We will probably find out when we see what actually gets homologated.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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hemichromis wrote:Source please!
I'm afraid the only sources there are are two power units with different names.