Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Last edited by Blackout on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jure
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Is there any connection between plenum size and engine power or anything else? I've been wondering what's the reason for different plenum shapes and sizes between different manufacturers. For example, Mercedes has two large plenum chambers (one for each bank of cylinders?) at the top of the engine.

hurril
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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jure wrote:Is there any connection between plenum size and engine power or anything else? I've been wondering what's the reason for different plenum shapes and sizes between different manufacturers. For example, Mercedes has two large plenum chambers (one for each bank of cylinders?) at the top of the engine.
I asked this the other day because there appears to be something to this.

bidness
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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hurril wrote:
jure wrote:Is there any connection between plenum size and engine power or anything else? I've been wondering what's the reason for different plenum shapes and sizes between different manufacturers. For example, Mercedes has two large plenum chambers (one for each bank of cylinders?) at the top of the engine.
I asked this the other day because there appears to be something to this.
My take (not an engineer, car enthusiast only) is that it may have to do with the split arrangement of the turbo/compressor unit. That Merc. have a plenum inlet for each bank makes me think the space in the "V" is taken up by MGU-H and anything else that permits the split. They said it was hard to do the split. The massive task of overcoming the difficulties is probably why the other manufactures have not done it.

The split is brilliant in my view in that it allows a cooler initial air feed (as opposed to taking the air to the rear of the engine where the other manufactures' compressors sit). Its always going to be cooler in front of the engine instead of near the hot turbo. The placement in the Merc. shortens the ducting and probably (at least in my thinking), allows for a more energized flow of air. So the Merc. has benefited from the layout with only the small downside of splitting the plenum feed.

hurril
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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bidness wrote:
hurril wrote:
jure wrote:Is there any connection between plenum size and engine power or anything else? I've been wondering what's the reason for different plenum shapes and sizes between different manufacturers. For example, Mercedes has two large plenum chambers (one for each bank of cylinders?) at the top of the engine.
I asked this the other day because there appears to be something to this.
My take (not an engineer, car enthusiast only) is that it may have to do with the split arrangement of the turbo/compressor unit. That Merc. have a plenum inlet for each bank makes me think the space in the "V" is taken up by MGU-H and anything else that permits the split. They said it was hard to do the split. The massive task of overcoming the difficulties is probably why the other manufactures have not done it.

The split is brilliant in my view in that it allows a cooler initial air feed (as opposed to taking the air to the rear of the engine where the other manufactures' compressors sit). Its always going to be cooler in front of the engine instead of near the hot turbo. The placement in the Merc. shortens the ducting and probably (at least in my thinking), allows for a more energized flow of air. So the Merc. has benefited from the layout with only the small downside of splitting the plenum feed.
These things are such that I can understand them and I think I did from the start. What we're wondering now is what the benefits are to having these fairly large plenum chambers. Mercedes' were very large even before the variable intake trumpet-rule was invented.

bidness
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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hurril wrote:
bidness wrote:
hurril wrote:
I asked this the other day because there appears to be something to this.
My take (not an engineer, car enthusiast only) is that it may have to do with the split arrangement of the turbo/compressor unit. That Merc. have a plenum inlet for each bank makes me think the space in the "V" is taken up by MGU-H and anything else that permits the split. They said it was hard to do the split. The massive task of overcoming the difficulties is probably why the other manufactures have not done it.

The split is brilliant in my view in that it allows a cooler initial air feed (as opposed to taking the air to the rear of the engine where the other manufactures' compressors sit). Its always going to be cooler in front of the engine instead of near the hot turbo. The placement in the Merc. shortens the ducting and probably (at least in my thinking), allows for a more energized flow of air. So the Merc. has benefited from the layout with only the small downside of splitting the plenum feed.
These things are such that I can understand them and I think I did from the start. What we're wondering now is what the benefits are to having these fairly large plenum chambers. Mercedes' were very large even before the variable intake trumpet-rule was invented.
Maybe they are not as large as you think they are is what I was alluding to in my post. We are only seeing the outside carbon fiber shroud but what does the inside look like? I suggest two smaller chambers with *things* taking up space in the middle. This is why (my guess) that the Merc. Plenum is so large.

hurril
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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bidness wrote: Maybe they are not as large as you think they are is what I was alluding to in my post. We are only seeing the outside carbon fiber shroud but what does the inside look like? I suggest two smaller chambers with *things* taking up space in the middle. This is why (my guess) that the Merc. Plenum is so large.
Oh! Good point!

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Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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These vid and pic give a nice view on the V/MGUH/plenum situation (2014), although they're just 3D models which arent 100% accurate but are very detailed
Starting from 1:57


Image

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amho
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Silent Storm wrote:Some differences between the two.
https://twitter.com/albrodpul/status/702247933991845890
Do two engine brands( Renault and Tag heurer) have separate engine tokens? and if they have then Renault can test different parts by using tokens of another team and decide for improving their engine for their next tokens.
There is no Might or Power except with Allah.

jure
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Renault and Tag Heuer PUs have the same manufacturer and thus have the same token allocation.

wuzak
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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amho wrote:
Silent Storm wrote:Some differences between the two.
https://twitter.com/albrodpul/status/702247933991845890
Do two engine brands( Renault and Tag heurer) have separate engine tokens? and if they have then Renault can test different parts by using tokens of another team and decide for improving their engine for their next tokens.
No.

toraabe
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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I read last year that it took them 1 year just to get it reliable.

bidness wrote:
hurril wrote:
jure wrote:Is there any connection between plenum size and engine power or anything else? I've been wondering what's the reason for different plenum shapes and sizes between different manufacturers. For example, Mercedes has two large plenum chambers (one for each bank of cylinders?) at the top of the engine.
I asked this the other day because there appears to be something to this.
My take (not an engineer, car enthusiast only) is that it may have to do with the split arrangement of the turbo/compressor unit. That Merc. have a plenum inlet for each bank makes me think the space in the "V" is taken up by MGU-H and anything else that permits the split. They said it was hard to do the split. The massive task of overcoming the difficulties is probably why the other manufactures have not done it.

The split is brilliant in my view in that it allows a cooler initial air feed (as opposed to taking the air to the rear of the engine where the other manufactures' compressors sit). Its always going to be cooler in front of the engine instead of near the hot turbo. The placement in the Merc. shortens the ducting and probably (at least in my thinking), allows for a more energized flow of air. So the Merc. has benefited from the layout with only the small downside of splitting the plenum feed.

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Blackout
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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AFAIR even with DRS, slipstream, less wings and qualy mode, no Renault could manage to do speed traps this high (highan mongst the top) in 2015, especially in a track like Barcelone... RIC maybe had a similar one in 2014, but in Monza.
Image

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Juzh
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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They didn't, no. It's also next to impossible to check because live timing doesn't work for 2015 anymore and race sped trap data is also not available for 2015 anymore. Only qually speed trap is.
Ric did 362 in monza.

jure
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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But if I remember correctly, 362 was Monza front wing + double slipstream + drs and probably overtake mapping.