## How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
firasf1dream
firasf1dream
1
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:26 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

tuj wrote:If the rear wheels are forced into too much locking in corner entry, the car will generally understeer or perhaps snap-oversteer after understeering. If the locking occurs at corner exit, it is likely to overwhelm both rear tires with power and lead to power oversteer.
ok thanks for the help so what i learned that i must use a differential must find a way to fit it :/

riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:18 am

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

Going back to the question in the OP, the basic function of an F1 diff is similar to some automotive diffs. A limited slip diff using a friction clutch does not transmit torque from one wheel to the other. What it does is allow the loaded wheel to maintain traction when the opposite wheel with less load begins to lose traction. The friction clutch pack in the diff begins to slip which limits the amount of torque applied to the wheel with less load, but it does not increase the amount of torque applied to the wheel with greater traction. The friction clutch slip and torque is converted to heat in the clutch pack. There is a limit to how much heat energy the clutch pack can absorb, and thus there is a limit to the amount of slip possible.
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
535
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

tuj wrote:If the rear wheels are forced into too much locking in corner entry, the car will generally understeer or perhaps snap-oversteer after understeering. If the locking occurs at corner exit, it is likely to overwhelm both rear tires with power and lead to power oversteer.
you can't have it both ways .....
true, the closer the diff is to locking on corner exit the easier it is for the driven wheels to be 'overwhelmed'
(as I have said in opposition to the 'Top Gear' TV rubbish)
but the further away from locking the more the wheelspin there will be (for the same driver/throttle action)

where is this wheelspin on corner exit in F1 ?
compared to some road cars F1 today has unintelligent diffs (but very intelligent drivers who are driving their diffs real-time)

btw - how many races did Porsche etc win with solid axles !! ie no differential (for every second of 24 hrs)
btw - the open diff is a friend and self-tuition aid to inexpert drivers in relatively low-powered cars
(showing in spin or not of the inner wheel if the cornering is using most of the grip without degrading the cornering)

mrluke
mrluke
124
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:31 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

Locked diff causes a bit of understeer on corner entry, the slower the corner the worse the understeer. It does not cause oversteer on exit, it provides more rear traction and more rear stability which allows the driver to comfortably provoke the rear end if they chose to.

Open diff results cause the inside tyre spinning up and sapping all of the power from the outside wheel which has plenty of grip available.

autogyro
autogyro
64
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:03 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

Locked diffs also increase tyre wear.
Conventional open diffs (F1) do not cause many problems because the C of G is very low on the cars and they have a large tyre traction footprint, wheel spin control is fairly easy compared to saloons.
I did some work on torque biasing diffs for F1 which would allow better control and setting up of over steer/ under steer.
This used computer control to vary the amount of torque delivered to each rear wheel.
It was also a method to assist in controlling the application and energy harvesting of the Hybrid systems used.
The teams were having and in some cases are still having real problems with the drivers inability to control the cars rear end under braking/harvesting.
Of course as usual the idea was not to the liking of the FIA and the big car/engine companies so it was banned.
Never mind McLaren/Honda I did try.

Kay
Kay
0
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:47 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

Just_a_fan wrote:They are basically an open differential just as on a road car. Clever torque-biasing differentials were banned a few years ago when traction control was reintroduced (traction control is now banned again, of course). McLaren were developing a clever differential to get around the traction control ban and the FIA/Ferrari decided that everyone having TC would be cheaper and easier than starting a "differential war".
Do you know why Traction Control and Limited Slip Differential were banned by F1? Also, what do you mean by a "differential war"?

Zynerji
Zynerji
78
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

I say remove the transmissions completely, and just move to a hydraulic cam-ring diff, and give full control over absolute torque to each wheel.

IF the engines are doing nothing but pumping hydraulic fluid, they can maximize the efficiency and have ridiculous amounts of torque.

roon
roon
449
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

I mean, diesels have proven successful in racing applications for years now. So why not hydrostatic drive as well, then? We'll have racing excavators in no time. Racing will improve as drivers will be able to extract themselves from gravel traps.

Zynerji
Zynerji
78
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

roon wrote:I mean, diesels have proven successful in racing applications for years now. So why not hydrostatic drive as well, then? We'll have racing excavators in no time. Racing will improve as drivers will be able to extract themselves from gravel traps.

One word sir,

Acceleration.

Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
138
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:51 am

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

Zynerji wrote:I say remove the transmissions completely, and just move to a hydraulic cam-ring diff, and give full control over absolute torque to each wheel.

IF the engines are doing nothing but pumping hydraulic fluid, they can maximize the efficiency and have ridiculous amounts of torque.
Is a hydrostatic drive really more efficient than a fully mechanical drivetrain though?

Zynerji
Zynerji
78
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

I doubt it is more efficient, but the torque is max at all engine rpm, so launch from the corner should be amazing.

Tim.Wright
463
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:29 am

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

Zynerji wrote:I doubt it is more efficient, but the torque is max at all engine rpm, so launch from the corner should be amazing.
You'grip limited at this point so how is extra torque going to help?
Not the engineer at Force India

Facts Only
Facts Only
270
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:25 am

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

Some of the Yellow Goods (digger) manufacturers have been testing Hydrostatic vs Gearbox drive for fuel efficiency while 'roading' and it seems that they are heading back to conventional gearboxes for fuel saving reasons.

Obviously its not the same thing as F1 but the requirement for fuel efficiency from the driveline is the same principal and diggers are about the only vehicle with plenty of back-to-back testing of both types.

Also diggers certainly don't have the problem of being traction limited on the road as F1 cars would ,which as Tim pointed out would be a problem in F1
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

Brian Coat
Brian Coat
98
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:42 pm

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

A really well designed hydrostatic trans struggles to get over 85% eff.

wagnerrbezerra
wagnerrbezerra
2
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:53 am

### Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

I don't know if i'm in the wrong topic but as we're talking about a split torque device, here it goes: how the power from the MGU-K is transferred to the output shaft?

Thanks