Fuel Improvements

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hardingfv32
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Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Fuel Improvements

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Statements are being made about performance gains from the file used. This quote from Shell: "Surprising but true, despite the vast amounts of technical effort spent developing a Formula One car, the fuel it runs on is surprisingly close to the composition of ordinary, commercially available petrol."

The components and knowledge set has been around for many years relative to F1 fuel. It is hard to believe that the gains come from within this old knowledge set. Has there been recent advances in science that allows the puzzle pieces to be assembled in new ways?

Specifically.. within the limited selection of chemicals available to F1.. what chemical combination in the fuel provides friction reduction for the piston rings?

Brian

Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Fuel Improvements

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yes, friction reduction by Shell fuel was publicised years ago (a magazine article linked on this site)

till 2014 fuel was never optimised for heat content per kg
till 2014 (from 1958) fuel had some limit of Octane number, since 2014 (upper) ON is unlimited

the potential number of permissible ingredients is rather huge, many of these have never been made or studied
but the rules severely limit in quantity many of these by sweeping classifications, so reducing the benefits of possible innovations
disincentivising a fuel war

do we know that eg Mercedes hasn't got a better fuel blend identified ?
not needed, so not yet available in suitable quantity

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Fuel Improvements

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This quote from Shell: "Surprising but true, despite the vast amounts of technical effort spent developing a Formula One car, the fuel it runs on is surprisingly close to the composition of ordinary, commercially available petrol."
Yeah Right
how much ethanol in your pump gas ?
Image
Look up the sheet on UN3475
98% ethanol
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

3jawchuck
37
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 08:57

Re: Fuel Improvements

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strad wrote:
This quote from Shell: "Surprising but true, despite the vast amounts of technical effort spent developing a Formula One car, the fuel it runs on is surprisingly close to the composition of ordinary, commercially available petrol."
Yeah Right
how much ethanol in your pump gas ?
http://www.stradsplace.com/photos/bahra ... -drums.jpg
Look up the sheet on UN3475
98% ethanol
That label means greater than 10% ethanol, 10-15% is a fairly typical pump quantity for my part of Europe.

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nevill3
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Joined: 11 Feb 2014, 21:31
Location: Monaco
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Re: Fuel Improvements

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Here is a link to the shell page for this fuel

http://www.shell.com/content/dam/shell/ ... lm24v2.pdf


I wonder what the Aromatic ingredients are that make up the " <33.8% by volume" :wink: ??
Sent from my Commodore PET in 1978

Tommy Cookers
617
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Fuel Improvements

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(guessing)
Toluene - lots of bang/litre and super high 'Octane' with rich mixture
the low MON relative to the RON is a giveaway - toluene doesn't do well at the higher charge temperature (and mixture nulling) of the MON test

over 10% ethanol and over 30% toluene doesn't look like F1 fuel, as both disadvantage heat/kg
you'd expect the F1 mandatory bio content to be butanol or something made from it - and only 5.7%

Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Fuel Improvements

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The E20 on the label would suggest 20% ethanol. Pump ethanol-petrol is E85 and is 85% ethanol, 15% petroleum.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Fuel Improvements

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the MSDA says it's 95-98% Ethanol
and only2-5% gasoline. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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bdr529
59
Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 19:49
Location: Canada

Re: Fuel Improvements

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Tommy Cookers wrote:(guessing)
Toluene - lots of bang/litre and super high 'Octane' with rich mixture
Could also be one of the Xylene's ? back when I was at the chemical company, my brother and his friend would add xylene to their gas when they ran their cars at the drag races, used for an octane boost, the guys in the lab figured out the ratio for them.
I do remember my father warned them off of using toluene because it would damage the fuel lines, not real a problem in F1 though.

We used to make the NOS octane boost and a few other chemicals for them, IIRC it was 99% xylene and something else that I can't remember right now, sorry it's been quite a few years since then.

Aromatic Content (aromatic hydrocarbon) that's a pretty big list of chemicals that fall under that banner, it could be a mixture of any of them.

Tommy Cookers
617
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Fuel Improvements

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yes, metaxylene (162 RON 124 MON) and paraxylene (155 RON 126 MON) are a lot better than toluene (124 RON 112 MON)
orthoxylene is a bit worse than toluene
from this http://yarchive.net/chem/knock.html
or metaxylene (145 RON 124 MON) and paraxylene (146 RON 127 MON) .... and benzene gets 115 MON here
from this http://www.enggcyclopedia.com/2011/01/octane-number/
the rumour mill says xylene is more harmful to rubber seals, though octane booster has lubrication constituents anyway

remember that other fuels eg the isooctane reference fuel are 100 RON and 100 MON
cyclopentane is 141 RON and 141 MON (and cyclopentene would have a higher heating value, but its ON is not in the public domain ?)
note to self - it also shows that not all isooctanes are 100 octane, only 2,2,4-trimethyl pentane
- and MON tests use higher 900 rpm, but a hotter charge, and adverse ignition timing at detonation (compared with RON)

and xylene's mass-specific heat value is about 1% better than toluene's
(though in most racing we might prefer a high stoichiometric-mass heat value ie Methanol's is about 8% higher than gasoline's)

xylene was my first thought, but there seemed no fuel-use attribution to it (unlike Toluene which is/was a substantial ingredient of Avgas)


but F1 seems to need a fuel that combusts well at unusually high AFR/boost (chosen to give low temperature combustion and low heat loss)
as well as having a high mass-specific heat value
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on 28 Apr 2016, 17:11, edited 3 times in total.

Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Fuel Improvements

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strad wrote:the MSDA says it's 95-98% Ethanol
and only2-5% gasoline. :wink:
How about a link to the thing you're quoting?
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

3jawchuck
37
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 08:57

Re: Fuel Improvements

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Tommy Cookers wrote:(guessing)
Toluene - lots of bang/litre and super high 'Octane' with rich mixture
the low MON relative to the RON is a giveaway - toluene doesn't do well at the higher charge temperature (and mixture nulling) of the MON test

over 10% ethanol and over 30% toluene doesn't look like F1 fuel, as both disadvantage heat/kg
you'd expect the F1 mandatory bio content to be butanol or something made from it - and only 5.7%
Would that have anything to do with the fuel heating that appears to be happening? I think there was a screenshot of something in one of the engine threads showing elevated fuel temperatures.

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Fuel Improvements

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Just_a_fan wrote:
strad wrote:the MSDA says it's 95-98% Ethanol
and only2-5% gasoline. :wink:
How about a link to the thing you're quoting?
Try typing in
Shell UN 3475.
That is the label on the barrel and the accompanying MSDA.
Point is, it ain't no Shell Pump gas like they try to tell us.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: Fuel Improvements

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That UN number is the number for flammable liquids I believe not a reference to a particular single product.

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... 01_to_3500

UN 3475 3 Ethanol and gasoline mixture or ethanol and motor spirit mixture or ethanol and petrol mixture, with more than 10% ethanol

ripper
39
Joined: 26 Aug 2015, 22:19

Re: Fuel Improvements

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Looking for a MSDS just by writing the UN number isn't going to work, because the UN number is related to the ADR/IMO/IATA regulations of dangerous goods transportation. As Flynfrog a said a lot of different product fall under the same number, even from the same manufacturer.

You should look for "shell v power lm24 msds" and see if they realeased it (which I doubt). Also keep in mind that in MSDS some substances can not appear if not dangerous and/or under some percentage or can be simply "forgotten"
flynfrog wrote:That UN number is the number for flammable liquids I believe not a reference to a particular single product.
To clarify a little: the UN number isn't for flammable liquid, but for a category of product that, as you said, in this case is: "Ethanol and gasoline mixture or ethanol and motor spirit mixture or ethanol and petrol mixture, with more than 10% ethanol". The number for flammable liquid is the 3 that is at the bottom of the symbol, it is clalled "class".