Fuel Improvements

[Just_a_fan]

the MSDA says it's 95-98% Ethanol
and only2-5% gasoline.

How about a link to the thing you're quoting?

Try typing in
Shell UN 3475.
That is the label on the barrel and the accompanying MSDA.
Point is, it ain't no Shell Pump gas like they try to tell us.

There is a separate MSDS for the bio-ethanol component that gives a small percentage of non-ethanol. This is solely for the denatured ethanol. There is another MSDS for the bio-ethanol/gasoline where the ethanol component is the expected amount.

The fuel is a bio-ethanol gasoline as per the requirement in the rules.

I think you've confused the two sheets.

[strad]

Yes you are right.
Just having a go.
Any who are familiar with me know that I cannot stand this lie that what F1 runs on is just like, "what you can buy at the pump". So I jumped on the sticker on a barrel of Shell LM24 racing fuel.
It galls me. Sorry I seem to have gotten some BPs jumping.

[bdr529]

Looking for a MSDS just by writing the UN number isn't going to work, because the UN number is related to the ADR/IMO/IATA regulations of dangerous goods transportation. As Flynfrog a said a lot of different product fall under the same number, even from the same manufacturer.

That UN number is the number for flammable liquids I believe not a reference to a particular single product.

To clarify a little: the UN number isn't for flammable liquid, but for a category of product that, as you said, in this case is: "Ethanol and gasoline mixture or ethanol and motor spirit mixture or ethanol and petrol mixture, with more than 10% ethanol". The number for flammable liquid is the 3 that is at the bottom of the symbol, it is clalled "class".

Yes both you and Flynfrog are correct, I saw the confusion and forgot to clarify that for everyone yesterday,

I spent years filling out those TDG slips, for an example UN1263 Paint, was the one I used most
it covered, paint, lacquer, enamel, stain, shellac, varnish, polish, liquid filler and liquid lacquer base.
also paint thinners and reducers (if they contained 2 or more solvents)

[bdr529]

the rumour mill says xylene is more harmful to rubber seals, though octane booster has lubrication constituents anyway

xylene was my first thought, but there seemed no fuel-use attribution to it (unlike Toluene which is/was a substantial ingredient of Avgas)

You'll have to excuse me Tom, but my time spent in the family chemical business, I was more concerned about not having these solvents catching on fire
they were just used in the production of paint and coatings, so my knowledge on theses solvents is somewhat limited as per their use in automotive fuels

As to your point about xylene and rubber seals, xylene will over time dry out the rubber seals and they will then start to crack and leak, my eldest brother ( I come from a big family 9) and I would soak our motorcycle tires in xylene the morning of a race, which made then very soft, but this would only last for a few days and then would start to rapidly deteriorate the rubber, as notice by his sponsor Pirelli tires
toluene will start to melt the OEM rubber fuel lines pretty much right away

after thinking about the NOS octane boost we used to make, the product for street use, the majority ingredient was kerosene/fuel oil. which would also act as the lubrication that you spoke of
And the one made for competition use was xylene and something else, still can't remember what the other ingredient was.
It's probably a good thing I can't remember, because we did sign a confidentiality agreement

[flynfrog]

Yes you are right.
Just having a go.
Any who are familiar with me know that I cannot stand this lie that what F1 runs on is just like, "what you can buy at the pump". So I jumped on the sticker on a barrel of Shell LM24 racing fuel.
It galls me. Sorry I seem to have gotten some BPs jumping.

Technically the station down the street from me has 100 octane unleaded race fuel at the pump. I use it in my Conti since it takes me a year to go through a tank in it and I don't want the ethanol making a mess of the 50 year old fuel lines.

[flynfrog]

Mind vomiting: I wonder if LM24 was for Lemans 24 Hour originally.

[strad]

""Shell Racing Fuel LM24 is a special unleaded racing fuel
designed for high power delivery and energy utilisation in
GT and prototype race engines. Shell Racing Fuel LM24
meets the relevant FIA and ACO regulations."""
And you can't come close at the pump. It's racing fuel.
That's what ticks me off.
I can get racing fuel from a pump up the road but I cannot pump it into my cars which ought to tell something right there.
THEY say what F1 runs is just like what you can get from the pump for your Corvette. . . It ain't. and that really pisses me off.
You used to be able to but the government got involved.

[flynfrog]

I haven't heard it referred to as the exact same fuel you get at the pump. It is gasoline based not methanol or nitro methane so I don't see it as being to big of a stretch to say burning gasoline "like" a street car. Sure it might not be the exact same fuel but its in the family. Its only 101 octane nothing that exotic it probably has a few neat additives to it but its base is most likely very close to the garbage 87 octane in the pump.

The reason you cant put that fuel in your street car is because it doesn't have road tax on it. Not that you cant put it in for offroad use only. No one has stopped me when I put it in my Conti.


Out of all the things to be mad about

Now lets go yell at the kids to get off our lawns....

Then we can put some C12 in that "street" mustang of yours and crank on some proper boost.

[strad]

I can't count all the Shell ads in particular that tout Ferraris F1 fuel as being just like what you can get at your local station and that is not only a lie it's false advertising.
Let's just drop it.
It's clear that people don't understand and or care and I guess that's how they get away with it.

[Tommy Cookers]

F1 has had since 1958 an octane number limit intended to match that of the highest grade road fuel
until 2014, from then F1 fuel has had no octane limit, ie there is no maximum ON, but interestingly, a minimum ON of 75

so, 'road relevant' engines that appear to rely on 'road irrelevant' fuel

in concept GP racing was always about road relevance
originally it had unlimited engines but a fuel consumption limit of 9.4 mpg
in 1914 the consumption limit was replaced by a capacity limit of 4.5 litres, later 3 litres, 2 litres, 1.5 litres, all for road relevance
special fuels didn't exist until the mid 20s
the 750 kg rules that produced 200 mph cars by 1937 were intended to be road relevant ie avoid producing 200 mph cars

[dans79]

I can't count all the Shell ads in particular that tout Ferraris F1 fuel as being just like what you can get at your local station and that is not only a lie it's false advertising.

it all comes down to what the advertising laws say. Without looking it up, I bet they can legal get away with it, because by law it's "close enough".

[strad]

And what is the definition of is, mister Clinton.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes you are right.
Just having a go.
Any who are familiar with me know that I cannot stand this lie that what F1 runs on is just like, "what you can buy at the pump". So I jumped on the sticker on a barrel of Shell LM24 racing fuel.
It galls me. Sorry I seem to have gotten some BPs jumping.

Ah, ok. I can see your point with regard to the claim - it's somewhat disingenuous of them, really.

[Just_a_fan]

Sure it might not be the exact same fuel but its in the family. Its only 101 octane nothing that exotic it probably has a few neat additives to it but its base is most likely very close to the garbage 87 octane in the pump.

I bet it's a gas-to-liquid fuel rather than a crude oil fuel. The stuff in those cans has probably never seen the inside of an oil pipeline.

[flynfrog]

Is the reason for that a purity thing?