Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
simieski
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011, 18:45

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Nicholas Spillett wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 01:46
roon wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 00:45
Big Tea wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 00:29


Is there any definitive information of which component or area they are talking about?
Yeah. The rest of the article is behind a paywall.

The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a
malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were
in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six
hydrocoptic marzelvanes, but the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft clearance pocket was 0,02mm short in the long dimension, preventing side fumbling from being effectively prevented.
Is that quote legit? Because I'm an engineer myself (software and electronics) and tbh that sounds like it was directly lifted from an episode of Dr Who.
As a licensed aircraft engineer (dirty hands type of engineer as opposed to desk) I can confirm the above translation is indeed 100% legitimate and accurate.
Thank you to God for making me an Atheist - Ricky Gervais.

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PlatinumZealot
551
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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hurril wrote:
07 Jun 2018, 21:18
PhillipM wrote:
07 Jun 2018, 21:06
That's a hell of a lot for it to just be manufacturing error - someone misread the CAD model? #-o
It does seem a lot to me too. But as someone that knows jack --- about tolerances, what would be acceptable? As in: what are the ranges in this context? Feeling a nerd chub coming on :)
0.2 millimeters is the tolerance of the everyday shaft or bore you would need to fit your run of the mill ball bearing.. and everyday and run of the mill just won't cut it for Formula 1!
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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roon wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 00:45
Big Tea wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 00:29
Maritimer wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 00:04


8 thou might as well be the grand canyon of crank journals. That's a big screw up at this level. Would they even run .002 clearance normally?
Is there any definitive information of which component or area they are talking about?
Yeah. The rest of the article is behind a paywall.

The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a
malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were
in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six
hydrocoptic marzelvanes, but the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft clearance pocket was 0,02mm short in the long dimension, preventing side fumbling from being effectively prevented.
Gah! hydrocoptic marzelvanes?!! Gosh! And here I thought these guys were at the pinnacle of engineering!
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J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Schrewellkonverter? Ach zo!

This'll be the Merc F1 - Rudi Uhlenhaut inspired - British character then..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjDBxkhiILc
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

PhillipM
385
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
09 Jun 2018, 05:39
0.2 millimeters is the tolerance of the everyday shaft or bore you would need to fit your run of the mill ball bearing.. and everyday and run of the mill just won't cut it for Formula 1!
You must be joking, most everyday sized bearings say in the 10-100mm range, 0.2mm out on a shaft or a bore would be knackered, the tolerances for out of round/deviation around about a tenth of that, and for nominal size a twentieth.

LM10
120
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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AMuS reported that the spec 2 engine broke down after 3700 km on test bench on tuesday. So Mercedes decided to wait and solve the problem until France.

Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Seems sensible if that's the case. No point bringing the new one if it's reliable isn't as close to 100% as they can get.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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PlatinumZealot
551
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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PhillipM wrote:
09 Jun 2018, 13:15
PlatinumZealot wrote:
09 Jun 2018, 05:39
0.2 millimeters is the tolerance of the everyday shaft or bore you would need to fit your run of the mill ball bearing.. and everyday and run of the mill just won't cut it for Formula 1!
You must be joking, most everyday sized bearings say in the 10-100mm range, 0.2mm out on a shaft or a bore would be knackered, the tolerances for out of round/deviation around about a tenth of that, and for nominal size a twentieth.
0.2 is an interference fit.. So if you off by that. It wont be knackered. If its loose by that.. It might stay in there.. You might live..
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Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Just in case we have some crossover of units here as we are from all over

O.2 / 0.02 'mm'

0.0078 / 0.00079 'inch'

Sorry to sound condescending, just mentioning it, like
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

PhillipM
385
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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0.2mm is a 'crack the housing' interference fit.

0.02 to 0.04mm is more like it for a thin wall alloy housing, lighter than that if it doesn't need axial retention.

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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LM10 wrote:
09 Jun 2018, 13:50
AMuS reported that the spec 2 engine broke down after 3700 km on test bench on tuesday. So Mercedes decided to wait and solve the problem until France.
3700, huh?

I thought is was 0,2.

Or 0,02.

J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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roon wrote:
10 Jun 2018, 06:06
LM10 wrote:
09 Jun 2018, 13:50
AMuS reported that the spec 2 engine broke down after 3700 km on test bench on tuesday. So Mercedes decided to wait and solve the problem until France.
3700, huh?

I thought is was 0,2.

Or 0,02.
Might want to re-run your calc's there roon..
since.. even by my rough 'back of the envelope' reckoning.. you may be out by an order of magnitude, or 3..
give or take the odd.. parsec..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Nicholas Spillett
0
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 06:13

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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simieski wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 13:15
As a licensed aircraft engineer (dirty hands type of engineer as opposed to desk) I can confirm the above translation is indeed 100% legitimate and accurate.
I guess my Dr Who analogy was pretty close to the truth, didn't realise the joke went back so far though... 1940s.

0.02 though doesn't seem too bad for a bad that would have significant tolerance stack with many parts right? Or the tolerances that incredibly tight that even this would never happen? If so that's bad news for this tech making it to road cars in any form over the next decade... :(

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Nicholas Spillett wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 04:14
simieski wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 13:15
As a licensed aircraft engineer (dirty hands type of engineer as opposed to desk) I can confirm the above translation is indeed 100% legitimate and accurate.
I guess my Dr Who analogy was pretty close to the truth, didn't realise the joke went back so far though... 1940s.

0.02 though doesn't seem too bad for a bad that would have significant tolerance stack with many parts right? Or the tolerances that incredibly tight that even this would never happen? If so that's bad news for this tech making it to road cars in any form over the next decade... :(
It's just a number a journalist or their source made up. So vague as to be useless. They changed the number from 0,2, to 0,02, then to 3700, and the unit from mm to km. Dice rolls may have been involved.

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Best then if we stick to traditional units like a 'tad', 'a gnatscock' or 'just a fag papers width'?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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