Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Sierra117
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Sierra117 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:18 am

[Right-click view to see original sizes]

Unlikely to have new engine's shots, but they are at least up until 2018's:
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Stitched some of them to get a larger overall picture:
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From the following video:
NIKI LAUDANZ SolidarityCubolligraphy | Instagram | Facebook
#Aerogorn & #Flowramir

Juzh
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Juzh » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:36 am

Why are exhaust manifolds removed on 15 and 16 units?

MtthsMlw
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by MtthsMlw » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:25 am

Image
via f1i.fr

Blaze1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blaze1 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:11 pm

Perhaps this should be posted in the general engine thread, but I thought about it when looking at the packaging of the Mercedes side pods and thinking about the exhaust system:

Now the regulations stipulate that the engine/PU must fit within a regulated box, but I'm not sure what components are associated with this dimensional/location regulation. Looking at the exhaust manifolds, in 2014 Mercedes used a log/unequal length system which provided exceptional packaging benefits, but hindered PU performance. I've been wondering, considering the space available in the gearbox casing, would it be possible to use that void (behind the ICE) as the area to equalise the length of the exhaust manifolds, rather than doing so on the sides of the ICE?

roon
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by roon » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:23 pm

Looks like the intake manifold covers are further shrink wrapped.

Blaze1 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:11 pm
Perhaps this should be posted in the general engine thread, but I thought about it when looking at the packaging of the Mercedes side pods and thinking about the exhaust system:

Now the regulations stipulate that the engine/PU must fit within a regulated box, but I'm not sure what components are associated with this dimensional/location regulation. Looking at the exhaust manifolds, in 2014 Mercedes used a log/unequal length system which provided exceptional packaging benefits, but hindered PU performance. I've been wondering, considering the space available in the gearbox casing, would it be possible to use that void (behind the ICE) as the area to equalise the length of the exhaust manifolds, rather than doing so on the sides of the ICE?
Still you'd need to route three pipes back there per side, so the cross sectional area won't be reduced much at the sides of the engine. The pipes would end up being longer, and the drivetrain assembly longer to fit the spaghetti inside the GB.

Blaze1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blaze1 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:50 pm

roon wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:23 pm
Looks like the intake manifold covers are further shrink wrapped.

Blaze1 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:11 pm
Perhaps this should be posted in the general engine thread, but I thought about it when looking at the packaging of the Mercedes side pods and thinking about the exhaust system:

Now the regulations stipulate that the engine/PU must fit within a regulated box, but I'm not sure what components are associated with this dimensional/location regulation. Looking at the exhaust manifolds, in 2014 Mercedes used a log/unequal length system which provided exceptional packaging benefits, but hindered PU performance. I've been wondering, considering the space available in the gearbox casing, would it be possible to use that void (behind the ICE) as the area to equalise the length of the exhaust manifolds, rather than doing so on the sides of the ICE?
Still you'd need to route three pipes back there per side, so the cross sectional area won't be reduced much at the sides of the engine. The pipes would end up being longer, and the drivetrain assembly longer to fit the spaghetti inside the GB.
The loops are quite a hindrance I think, as demonstrated in this image of the Force India/Racing Point installation, highlighting how much bodywork/aero the upper loop sacrifices:
Image

As you say, space within the confines of the gearbox casing may prove to be a problem.

roon
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by roon » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:59 pm

Blaze1 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:50 pm
roon wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:23 pm
Looks like the intake manifold covers are further shrink wrapped.

Blaze1 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:11 pm
Perhaps this should be posted in the general engine thread, but I thought about it when looking at the packaging of the Mercedes side pods and thinking about the exhaust system:

Now the regulations stipulate that the engine/PU must fit within a regulated box, but I'm not sure what components are associated with this dimensional/location regulation. Looking at the exhaust manifolds, in 2014 Mercedes used a log/unequal length system which provided exceptional packaging benefits, but hindered PU performance. I've been wondering, considering the space available in the gearbox casing, would it be possible to use that void (behind the ICE) as the area to equalise the length of the exhaust manifolds, rather than doing so on the sides of the ICE?
Still you'd need to route three pipes back there per side, so the cross sectional area won't be reduced much at the sides of the engine. The pipes would end up being longer, and the drivetrain assembly longer to fit the spaghetti inside the GB.
The loops are quite a hindrance I think, as demonstrated in this image of the Force India/Racing Point installation, highlighting how much bodywork/aero the upper loop sacrifices:
https://imgr3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/S ... 425074.jpg

As you say, space within the confines of the gearbox casing may prove to be a problem.
I think the most compact (frontal cross-section) non-log arrangement may be Ferrari's former approach (pictured below). It kept the rear two headers in the shadow of the first.

Image

roon
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by roon » Sat May 11, 2019 8:43 pm

No one else yet to follow merc's lead with putting the intercooler in the fuel tank area. Fuel tank shape less critical than all the plumbing atop the engine. Seems like a no brainer, but what do I know. Water cooling efficiency, combined with half the system being in the monocoque, not even in the engine bay... Further aided by split-turbo's plumbing advantages. People still wonder how they can get the sidepods so small.

Blaze1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blaze1 » Sat May 11, 2019 11:54 pm

roon wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:43 pm
No one else yet to follow merc's lead with putting the intercooler in the fuel tank area. Fuel tank shape less critical than all the plumbing atop the engine. Seems like a no brainer, but what do I know. Water cooling efficiency, combined with half the system being in the monocoque, not even in the engine bay... Further aided by split-turbo's plumbing advantages. People still wonder how they can get the sidepods so small.
Haas' Ferrari PU:
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roon
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by roon » Sun May 12, 2019 12:33 am

That's true. Actually posted after seeing that image in the other threads. It's still sharing space with the intake manifolds though. Halfway there.

aleks_ader
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by aleks_ader » Sun May 12, 2019 12:49 am

roon wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:43 pm
No one else yet to follow merc's lead with putting the intercooler in the fuel tank area. Fuel tank shape less critical than all the plumbing atop the engine. Seems like a no brainer, but what do I know. Water cooling efficiency, combined with half the system being in the monocoque, not even in the engine bay... Further aided by split-turbo's plumbing advantages. People still wonder how they can get the sidepods so small.
Not true Ferrari had intercooler infront ICE also in 2016. Look into my post in Ferrari thread if you dont believe me ;)
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

roon
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by roon » Sun May 12, 2019 1:22 am

That's true. Was thinking of their older units. The '19 location looks pushed back partially into the vee again. Halfway there in terms of engine bay compactness. Merc get to stow compressor, intercooler, and all charge piping inside the monocoque, uniquely for six seasons. Space above engine consumed by intake manifold, MGUH, and cooling ducts only. That same region for Ferrari and Renault also needs fit charge pipes & compressor inlet ducting. Honda almost there save for bulkier twin air to air intercoolers and associated piping.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by JordanMugen » Sun May 12, 2019 9:17 am

roon wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:59 pm

I think the most compact (frontal cross-section) non-log arrangement may be Ferrari's former approach (pictured below). It kept the rear two headers in the shadow of the first.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... maruuu.jpg
Intuition suggests that such a 3-1 collector design is not quite optimal. :shock:

A conventional 3-1 collector has the pipes distributed axially:
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The old Ferrari design (below) is rather bizarre... A bit like the space-limited compromised manifold used on the Ford Mustang road car (2nd below).
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Eryngii
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Eryngii » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 am


Javert
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Javert » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:30 pm

Their engine needs to improve, especially considering that the 2021 regs are starting to be likely transferred to 2022, so 2020 and 2021 will be 'stable' seasons maybe