Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
32Smooth
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:17 pm
Merc now can start their engine with the mgu-k!!!
yep i noticed as well. They practised it at lease twice with Lewis ...

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:17 pm
Merc now can start their engine with the mgu-k!!!
Oh, did they? Well they should be able to, in theory.

I had a weird suspiscion that the type of motor they use is different to the others. One that would have less low speed efficiency but higher full load efficiency and needs less electronics. But can't quite say for sure.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

hurril
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:00 pm
DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:17 pm
Merc now can start their engine with the mgu-k!!!
Oh, did they? Well they should be able to, in theory.

I had a weird suspiscion that the type of motor they use is different to the others. One that would have less low speed efficiency but higher full load efficiency and needs less electronics. But can't quite say for sure.
What sort of difference would produce that outcome? Electric motors are a total dark area for me.

Mansell89
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Very amateur PU question from me guys but as a McLaren fan intrigued by their return to Mercedes power, I’m trying to nip in the bud some things I read back at the start of the hybrid era:

In 2014, there was a bit of chatter about customer teams not knowing how to maximise the PU performance in the same way as a works team- are we now in a time where the FIA strongly regulates the usage and software shares from works to customer?

In 2014 I believe McLaren were still a Mobil fuel partner. With Mercedes being in great synergy with Petronas, I’m led to believe that the works team generated far better/more efficient performance using Petronas and that McLaren may have hindered themselves using Mobil that year- is this correct in any way? And with that in mind, is it now the case that all customers get the same fuels and lubricants as the works provider? (ie, use Petronas even if sponsored by Gulf, for example)

There was that podcast a few years ago from the ex Lotus guy who talked about engine modes and that there was an occasion where they were given a mode mid-race to fight a Merc rival that the drivers reported to be far better than anything they’d had before but that the Merc engineer wouldn’t tell them what it was or how it was achieved, and I suppose that really lit my interest in the subject, especially when McLaren announced they were going to be a Merc partner again.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:00 pm
DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:17 pm
Merc now can start their engine with the mgu-k!!!
Oh, did they? Well they should be able to, in theory.
I had a weird suspiscion that the type of motor they use is different to the others. One that would have less low speed efficiency but higher full load efficiency and needs less electronics. But can't quite say for sure.
the maximum MGU-K torque allowed is 200 Nm (crankshaft referred)
the further below c.6000 rpm they go the further the MGU-K power must fall below 120 kW

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Yes. But a more efficient and lighter system can give an advantage.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

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Big Tea
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mansell89 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:17 am
Very amateur PU question from me guys but as a McLaren fan intrigued by their return to Mercedes power, I’m trying to nip in the bud some things I read back at the start of the hybrid era:

In 2014, there was a bit of chatter about customer teams not knowing how to maximise the PU performance in the same way as a works team- are we now in a time where the FIA strongly regulates the usage and software shares from works to customer?

In 2014 I believe McLaren were still a Mobil fuel partner. With Mercedes being in great synergy with Petronas, I’m led to believe that the works team generated far better/more efficient performance using Petronas and that McLaren may have hindered themselves using Mobil that year- is this correct in any way? And with that in mind, is it now the case that all customers get the same fuels and lubricants as the works provider? (ie, use Petronas even if sponsored by Gulf, for example)

There was that podcast a few years ago from the ex Lotus guy who talked about engine modes and that there was an occasion where they were given a mode mid-race to fight a Merc rival that the drivers reported to be far better than anything they’d had before but that the Merc engineer wouldn’t tell them what it was or how it was achieved, and I suppose that really lit my interest in the subject, especially when McLaren announced they were going to be a Merc partner again.
One important thing as far as Mclaren are concerned is that the rule is 'things' must be available to all customers, not all must be the same. There are many small points that differ as Mclaren will have a different design principle to Merc and will use many of their own 'bits' such as cooling exhaust etc and wil not want the ones Merc are using or want to run with the same settings.

Is it decided which fuel Mclaren is using yet?
We are sitting on the shoulders of giants so we can see more things than they can

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NathanOlder
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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On the subject of newb like questions, When did Mercedes first start work on their V6 Hybrid? I read Andy Cowell say the first design was 2012, but then read di Montezemolo saying Lauda told him 2007 !? Surely that was the KERS hybrid V8?
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63l8qrrfy6
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Most manufacturers started the work in 2011-2012 when regulations seemed firm enough (inline 4, 1.6l). I don't know how far everyone got with that engine but Merc and AER both had it designed and running on the dyno before Ferrari insisted on a V6.

To say anyone could have started earlier than that is pure nonsense. Absolutely no one could have anticipated what the regs could have been back in 2007 particularly given the big shake-up caused by the last minute change to the engine architecture in 2012.

Of course most manufacturers have been involved with electric motors and batteries since the start of the KERS era and much of that technology was transfered to current engines. To say that is some sort of unfair advantage is a bit like saying Daimler had the upper hand because they have been building engines for 120 years.

Skippon
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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These things are never single events - but an ongoing strategy.
You could say HPP began to work on V6T in 2012 but a precursor to that was bringing KERS in-house in 2010; as they knew understanding how to build electric motors and marrying electric motor control to the combustion engine would be important in 2014. KERS 2011-2013 was part of the learning for 2014+.
Likewise they knew electrification was coming in with KERS in 2009, so they started thinking about that from 2007. The learning from that experience allowing them to plan for KERS in 2011+.
I guess also when looking to the future in 2008 time era they identified a need to trial all this with their own team so when Honda/Brawn needed rescuing they took the opportunity.
To this day there appears to be a strategy reaching into Daimler as a whole. It is no coincidence that the MD of HPP in 2007/8/9 is now the chairman of Daimler; and they use HPP as development path for the mothership e.g. Project One 'supercar" and dabbling with full electric via the FE programme which presumably comes from the same group that did KERS/ERS in earlier years.

KAIZEN
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mercedes use a water-to-air intercooler.


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aleks_ader
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Not really news tho. : D For almost half of decade. :D
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

tangodjango
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Though it's blurred and a McLaren pic, the engine in this photo might be the new Mercedes PU..
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

63l8qrrfy6
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Could be, I hear they are getting ready for the first chassis dyno test.

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare