Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Stu
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The author of that piece is routinely rubbished when postulating about Ferrari power units.
A new type of turbocharger? Unless they have found a way to compound with a single turbine/compressor (beyond the MGU) what new thing could be brought in that is within the rules, they are quite closed.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

toraabe
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Not one guy knows something that the other 800+ people at Brixworth don't. I seriously doubt on this...

Scalexf1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Stu wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:00 pm
The author of that piece is routinely rubbished when postulating about Ferrari power units.
A new type of turbocharger? Unless they have found a way to compound with a single turbine/compressor (beyond the MGU) what new thing could be brought in that is within the rules, they are quite closed.
It is the appropriately named, silly season after all.
Some of the articles circulating are interesting to read, but as always taken with a pinch of salt until some official confirmation. The Mercedes’ engine strategy was interesting in the last half of the season though. They capitalised on the relaxed engine penalty rule introduced to assist Honda when they were having lots of problems in the early years of their Hybrid engine. There is a certain irony in that. I’m surprised that engine penalty rule has not been modified now. Maybe once the new engines have been run and the FIA have assessed if anyone is in serious trouble, we may see a change to the engine penalty rule.

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_cerber1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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But, with a few weeks still to go before the new power units run on track for the first time in pre-season testing, McLaren has offered some encouragement about the state of progress.

Asked by Motorsport.com about any feedback McLaren had had from Mercedes on engines, CEO Zak Brown said the signs were encouraging.

“They're feeling good about their development,” explained Brown. “We fortunately had good reliability last year. As you know, there's more than just the power unit that goes into the reliability.

"I think our guys did a good job of working with the power unit in year one, so reliability hasn't been maybe the same level of concern with us that it has with others.

“I spoke with Toto [Wolff, Mercedes team boss] last week about it. And he was pretty bullish.

“I think the power unit race is as close as ever, but I'm not worried about it.”

Speaking last year, Wolff explained that Mercedes’ engine headaches in 2021 were a consequence of the way it had to go super-aggressive with development to catch up with ’s power gains in 2019.

“We were pushed very hard in 2019, and came with a power unit in 2020 that was right there, but maybe it stretched us too much,” explained Wolff towards the end of last season.

“If you are in the constant pursuit of performance, sometimes reliability falls behind. And I guess this is what happened.”


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... n/7440182/

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Stu
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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_cerber1 wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:05 pm
But, with a few weeks still to go before the new power units run on track for the first time in pre-season testing, McLaren has offered some encouragement about the state of progress.

Asked by Motorsport.com about any feedback McLaren had had from Mercedes on engines, CEO Zak Brown said the signs were encouraging.

“They're feeling good about their development,” explained Brown. “We fortunately had good reliability last year. As you know, there's more than just the power unit that goes into the reliability.

"I think our guys did a good job of working with the power unit in year one, so reliability hasn't been maybe the same level of concern with us that it has with others.

“I spoke with Toto [Wolff, Mercedes team boss] last week about it. And he was pretty bullish.

“I think the power unit race is as close as ever, but I'm not worried about it.”

Speaking last year, Wolff explained that Mercedes’ engine headaches in 2021 were a consequence of the way it had to go super-aggressive with development to catch up with ’s power gains in 2019.

“We were pushed very hard in 2019, and came with a power unit in 2020 that was right there, but maybe it stretched us too much,” explained Wolff towards the end of last season.

“If you are in the constant pursuit of performance, sometimes reliability falls behind. And I guess this is what happened.”


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... n/7440182/
A very strange state of affairs when a customer team can (rightly) claim to have had very good PU reliability, but the factory team bemoan the longevity and reliability of the unit fitted in their own cars?

Honestly, it is about time the FIA plugged the gap and restricted mapping options by PU type. Fuel is fixed, oil is fixed, PU specification is fixed, so why the need to keep mapping options open - pretty much everything that could require big mapping alternatives is fixed.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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mclaren111
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Stu wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:59 pm

A very strange state of affairs when a customer team can (rightly) claim to have had very good PU reliability, but the factory team bemoan the longevity and reliability of the unit fitted in their own cars?

Honestly, it is about time the FIA plugged the gap and restricted mapping options by PU type. Fuel is fixed, oil is fixed, PU specification is fixed, so why the need to keep mapping options open - pretty much everything that could require big mapping alternatives is fixed.

Disagree... Far to much in F1 are already standard & restrictive...

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pursue_one's
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Big changes at Mercedes F1 engines(larger turbocharger).
The main focus was on turbochargers, according to the Japanese Auto Sports web.
Mercedes has increased the size of its turbocharger and has reportedly compromised aerodynamics with the chassis of the W13.

https://www.as-web.jp/f1/778414

saviour stivala
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mclaren111 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:31 pm
Stu wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:59 pm

A very strange state of affairs when a customer team can (rightly) claim to have had very good PU reliability, but the factory team bemoan the longevity and reliability of the unit fitted in their own cars?

Honestly, it is about time the FIA plugged the gap and restricted mapping options by PU type. Fuel is fixed, oil is fixed, PU specification is fixed, so why the need to keep mapping options open - pretty much everything that could require big mapping alternatives is fixed.

Disagree... Far to much in F1 are already standard & restrictive...
Power unit hardware and software supplied to customer must be the same as that used by the manufacturer. The power unit is manufactured to be used with various levels of software. The chose of software used (power unit mapping) during qualifying and race is a chose belonging to the individual teams, a team may even choose to run their two cars on deferent power unit mapping during qualifying and race. Those selective power unit software decisions to run on will imping on the power unit reliability on the long run. All that means that a team moaning re their power unit reliability would have been solely down to their decision of how they run their power unit, the more risks taken the worst the reliability will be. As long as the regulator doesn’t also eliminate the ‘chose’ of power unit maps even between manufacturers and their individual teams the situation will remain the same.
Fully agree. F1 is already far too much standardized and restrictive.

saviour stivala
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Re the Mercedes power unit customer team that rightly claimed good reliability of the power units supplied by Mercedes, (a set of 3 power units for one car costs Euro 12m) barely survived 2020 because of financial losses, so one should not be surprised they didn’t ‘load-up’ on their supply of power units as the supplier did. and if they didn't it was their choise.

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Stu
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:43 pm
Re the Mercedes power unit customer team that rightly claimed good reliability of the power units supplied by Mercedes, (a set of 3 power units for one car costs Euro 12m) barely survived 2020 because of financial losses, so one should not be surprised they didn’t ‘load-up’ on their supply of power units as the supplier did. and if they didn't it was their choise.
However, when a budget cap is in place, the ‘extra’ 12 mill per car needs to be accounted for when AMG (who operate the race team on behalf of Mercedes) want an extra 3 engines per car from HPP (who build the engines on behalf of Mercedes) because they want to operate them “loaded up”. If that is not included within the budget cap, any team with a manufacturer link to their engine manufacturer (ie a ‘works’ team) gets an automatic budget boost of at least 24 million.
There are now 5 teams in a position to take advantage of that, if it acceptable.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

saviour stivala
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Power unit cost is not added to budget cap. But yes, in my opinion manufacturers have an advantage over customer teams re budged cap.

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_cerber1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The sound of the engine in the video from McLaren is somewhat different from what was presented by Mercedes itself.

haza
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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_cerber1 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:24 pm
The sound of the engine in the video from McLaren is somewhat different from what was presented by Mercedes itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx5zTPQ552g
Mac had a different slightly different sound last year customers are allowed if I’m not mistaken to make there own exhaust system this will probably explain the difference in the two fire ups

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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_cerber1 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:24 pm
The sound of the engine in the video from McLaren is somewhat different from what was presented by Mercedes itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx5zTPQ552g
Could be because McLaren shifted away the duct that normally takes the exhaust fumes.

Mercedes had their duct pretty close:

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Mitch2.0
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:14 am


Power unit hardware and software supplied to customer must be the same as that used by the manufacturer. The power unit is manufactured to be used with various levels of software. The chose of software used (power unit mapping) during qualifying and race is a chose belonging to the individual teams, a team may even choose to run their two cars on deferent power unit mapping during qualifying and race. Those selective power unit software decisions to run on will imping on the power unit reliability on the long run. All that means that a team moaning re their power unit reliability would have been solely down to their decision of how they run their power unit, the more risks taken the worst the reliability will be. As long as the regulator doesn’t also eliminate the ‘chose’ of power unit maps even between manufacturers and their individual teams the situation will remain the same.
Fully agree. F1 is already far too much standardized and restrictive.
Not sure I wholly agree with that, it was obvious McLaren were not in the running for a championship, so if what you’re saying is accurate then it would have made far more sense for McLaren to run ultra aggressive with their PU strategy in the hope of winning the odd race, even if it meant taking penalties.

A couple of wins in a season, even at the expense of some grid penalties later on will do far more to keep sponsors happy than not having any DNFs thanks to running in a conservative mode.

I simply believe with the fuel and lubricants McLaren use, they simply don’t have the option to push the PU as hard; they even have fewer strat and engine mode options on their steering wheel when compared to Merc, as do Williams.