Extra power from oil additives during the race.

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
PlatinumZealot
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:58 pm

hurril wrote:If there's still oxygen in the exhaust (from the very lean burning) then a leaking at the exhaust valve site could feed the turbine a little more.
Nice Idea. Afterburners. :mrgreen:

Feed the oil additive into the exhaust after the Oxygen sensor lol
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

J.A.W.
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by J.A.W. » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:44 am

Interesting topical comment from Melbourne by ex-racer turned pit lane reporter Mark Webber..
On being next to the Ferrari during initial start up - he reckoned the exhaust fumes were exotic..
..when asked what he meant, he laughed & said "...that ah, smells like.. power..."
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by wuzak » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:34 am

J.A.W. wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:44 am
Interesting topical comment from Melbourne by ex-racer turned pit lane reporter Mark Webber..
On being next to the Ferrari during initial start up - he reckoned the exhaust fumes were exotic..
..when asked what he meant, he laughed & said "...that ah, smells like.. power..."
They all smell funny....

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:50 am

toraabe wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:09 am
Facts Only wrote:I'm amazed that people have managed to put a puff of turbo oil smoke together with Red Bulls usual wingeing to come up with an entire story and strategy for using the engine oil as fuel. I've never read so much complete guff.

Of you look in the Merchant W08 thread there is a pic of the Merchant pulling away in testing with a puff of smoke. It's just a well lubricated engine biting off some excess oil in the exhaust.
The new Renault engine also does the same.
Any race engine will let off some smoke after startup or prolonged low rpm rest.

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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by J.A.W. » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:13 am

wuzak wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:34 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:44 am
Interesting topical comment from Melbourne by ex-racer turned pit lane reporter Mark Webber..
On being next to the Ferrari during initial start up - he reckoned the exhaust fumes were exotic..
..when asked what he meant, he laughed & said "...that ah, smells like.. power..."
They all smell funny....
Sure do, but to paraphrase you with Orwell, '...they all smell funny, but some smell more funny than others...'
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

J.A.W.
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by J.A.W. » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:35 am

& a year after the 'can of worms' opened here by the O.P., there's news of official "measures" being mooted...
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by doctorsdad » Tue May 02, 2017 7:03 pm

Hi guys.
I know there are some seriously clever people reading (and contributing to) this forum so here's my plea for help.
I've committed myself to giving a public lecture on the developments in F1 over the last fifty years and one thing I want to bring up is the development of lubricants. I remember the smell of Castrol 'R', and we've come a long way from there to the fully synthetic brews in use today.

Can anyone point me to publicly available research papers that explain recent developments?

My audience will be senior physicists and engineers so I can't get away with b***it and hand waving.

Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards,
DoctorsDad.

J.A.W.
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by J.A.W. » Tue May 02, 2017 11:38 pm

D-D, There are untold numbers of tribological papers available, from company/industry histories to
research & development documents, & many with regard to specifics in usage.

It might be worth contacting the specific oil supplier-sponsors/partners for their tech releases,
then compare them to the data released by specialist suppliers on the open market..

NASA archives are freely available, & include an aerospace data base going back - many decades..
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

hardingfv32
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by hardingfv32 » Wed May 03, 2017 6:01 pm

Email me and I will send PDF's.

hardingfv32@gmail.com

J.A.W.
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by J.A.W. » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:11 am

I figured it was worth bumping this thread to keep it parallel with the other like thread,
so that the extra info herein, is on the same page, as such.
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

J.A.W.
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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by J.A.W. » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:21 am

As to the question of real-time monitoring of oil consumption..

The FIA could - surely - mandate the use of a specific tell-tale additive..
.. which would, on combustion, show a gaseous trace level in the exhaust - to be continuously sampled by a telemetry probe..

Obviously the chosen additive compound ought to be 'safe/inert' both in tribological values & as an atmospheric emission..

In any case I'd be interested to know the chemical composition of the rich exhaust efflux flames ( so rare these days)..
..that going 'Hammertime' caused to be seen at Spa, in the - post safety car - run to the finish..
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by Brian Coat » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:32 am

I hope I can add some useful input to this.

Radioactive labelling is a long established and accurate method for measuring actual oil consumption in real time and not as dodgy as it sounds ... there are other effective methods but this is the one I've used and know works. All the big oil companies know how to do this and possibly have other methods too.

Perfectly do-able in-car.

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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:07 pm

Great article by Scarbs here.

He very well deconstructed and analysed the whole oil burning mechanics. Worth a read.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by gruntguru » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:13 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:07 pm
Great article by Scarbs here.
He very well deconstructed and analysed the whole oil burning mechanics. Worth a read.
Yes good article but - Scarbs focuses on additives as the primary benefit. If that were the case, the rate of oil consumption would not be so critical - it would be simple to increase the concentration of "additives" in the oil.

The current rules mean that combustion of 5 litres of oil for every 100 litres of fuel could see a power increase of up to 5%. The calorific value of the oil is the primary attribute. Octane issues can be partially resolved with formulation and additives plus these engines are not as detonation sensitive as one might think.
je suis charlie

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Re: Extra power from oil additives during the race.

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:44 am

The reason why scarbs speaks about the additive is because all the engines burn oil and it would be remiss of the other engine designers to not to notice that in their basic mass balances that oil is extra hydrocarbon in the engine. And those engineers have their data to know how much oil the engine can tolerate, if any...

From street car engine tuning we know that oil is bad.... When was this paradigm shift where burning oil is good now? Mercedes has done something where oil is not just oil anymore... We dont see any smoke meaning complete combustion of the oil vapours. It is very easy to meter oil into the engine.... And let's face it, the hardware in the cylinder alone is not the reason why Ferrari's oil burning is not as powerful (knock knock!) .. I think it must be the oil formulation..
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne