2021 Engine thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Cold Fussion
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Cold Fussion » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:18 am

mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:57 am
Car & Driver:

Ferrari Patents Novel Method for Making Turbocharged Engines Sound Better
To unmuffle its turbocharged engines, Ferrari electrifies the turbo.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/ferra ... ate=072518


And then they expect us to like the current "lawnmover" sounding PU's !! :( :o :(
This has zero application in F1 and is of dubious value in a roadcar.

roon
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:32 am

Cold Fussion wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:18 am
mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:57 am
Car & Driver:
Ferrari Patents Novel Method for Making Turbocharged Engines Sound Better
To unmuffle its turbocharged engines, Ferrari electrifies the turbo.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/ferra ... ate=072518
And then they expect us to like the current "lawnmover" sounding PU's !! :( :o :(
This has zero application in F1 and is of dubious value in a roadcar.
Image

MtthsMlw
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by MtthsMlw » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:57 am

+4 cylinders

Morteza
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Morteza » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:19 am

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

gshevlin
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by gshevlin » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:11 pm

So...my conclusion is that the 4 existing manufacturers have created enough FUD to scare off new manufacturers, plus they have delayed the finalization of the regulations to a point where even if a manufacturer wanted to enter for 2021, they would not have enough time to develop a powerplant to the point where it is competitive.
I suspect that the recent alignment of Red Bull with Honda (which Red Bull is now hilariously talking up almost every chance they get) took most of the steam out of the lobbying for new regulations to allow another third party to join the powerplant competition.
Liberty has been played by the incumbents, and in the meantime, energy has been diverted from the more serious business of fixing technical and financial regulations to facilitate better racing and to level the playing field on costs.

roon
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:17 pm

gshevlin wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:11 pm
Liberty has been played by the incumbents, and in the meantime, energy has been diverted from the more serious business of fixing technical and financial regulations to facilitate better racing and to level the playing field on costs.
Da, comrade. This delays the glorious races in capitalist pig F1. NASCAR politburo show us the necessary of full communism for the great crashes and of many people doing the same thing at the same time for same money. Drivers must be in single long line close together for all the race, this is important for the equality and the vigorous and great excitement.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:20 pm

We should start a 2023 engine thread. Lookslike nobody is interested in (Twin) Turbo V6 units. With or without MGU-H.

On the other hand everybody wants to join Formula-E. So maybe we should drop combustion engine development and keep to a fairly restricted (NA) ICE paired to a free de developed KERS unit.

How about:

1.6l V6 ICE
Natural aspirated
Rev limited @ 18000 rpm
standarized geometry of internal parts
single engine map for each weekend

200Kw KERS
Direct coupled to crankshaft
8MJ battery
Manual deployment & recovery

roon
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:14 pm

Will 2021/2023 unseat Merc? Someone more knowledgeable than myself may be able to explain how Merc of recent years is different than an early 00s Ferrari, and has the potential to keep winning several seasons into the future. Merc will have a say in future engine regs. A major aero regulations overhaul may disrupt things, but is there any need for it?

JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by JordanMugen » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:05 am

roon wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:14 pm
Someone more knowledgeable than myself may be able to explain how Merc of recent years is different than an early 00s Ferrari, and has the potential to keep winning several seasons into the future.
Well Ferrari built cars capable to win from 2001 to 2008. So that's just as long as Mercedes. In 2005, they had Bridgestone tyres which were noncompetitive. In 2007/2008, they had Raikkonen/Massa driver lineup which is not as good as a driver lineup with Michael Schumacher in it.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:25 am

roon wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:14 pm
Will 2021/2023 unseat Merc? Someone more knowledgeable than myself may be able to explain how Merc of recent years is different than an early 00s Ferrari, and has the potential to keep winning several seasons into the future. Merc will have a say in future engine regs. A major aero regulations overhaul may disrupt things, but is there any need for it?
Budget wise, Ferrari is unlimited. They always need to be in F1. Mercedes needed sports to rejuvenate their brand image. When that is done, they will back off and slowly lower the amount of funding.

On the other hand, they have a great structure set up by Ross Brawn and manager (Toto) who is also team owner and will keep things they are. Unlike Italian structure, where teamboss can be fired after 1 bad race and Italian families trying to steer the team and change structure.

For a healthy future of F1, the cars need to be more competitive, performance more depending of chassis than motor and cost need to be kept under control.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:14 pm

Hi!

So this is what Brawn claimed in a recent article:
“They will be noisier in 2021 and they will be more powerful,

“We are also putting more emphasis on drivers to control some parameters of the engine such as energy recovery, which comes from battery and hybrid motors, more of that will be under the control of drivers. So you can do things strategically to overtake. Everyone is on same page now, we have agreements with manufacturers.”
I wonder how they want to increase noise , when apparently the essence of the formula stay the same because the manufacturers wishes. So we'll still have the two MGU-s and fuel consupmtion limit.
Will they add an acoustic horn at the end of the exhaust? :D
I guess the power increase was implied by the gearbox tender that suggests a more powerful mgu-k.

The energy recovery part is a bit weird. I guess it can't include H since even software had difficulties with it in the beginning. A second brake pedal for re-gen breaking? It'd be a tad odd.
Or did he just misspoke and thinking of a KERS-like deployment?

gruntguru
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by gruntguru » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:49 pm

I would assume the additional driver control (or reduced software control) would be via steering wheel switch settings as it is now.
je suis charlie

Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Zynerji » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:06 am

Can we just get 3.2L V12s with a single centrifugal supercharger (max boost @18000rpm), direct injection, and TJI?

Should get us 1500 hp with midrange torque and screaming noise as well as being cheap enough to run a new one every weekend.

And no possible electrocutions... :?

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:45 am

It is certain we will see the same 1.6 V6 MGU-H hybrid engine.

Noisier would imply a limit in the size of turbo/mgu-h or a powerlimit so we stop development of exhaust heat recovery.

Maybe more revs by increasing the rpm at which the maximum fuel flow will be released. It is 10500 rpm now.

More power could be a higher fuel flow or a bigger MGU-K.

Manual control would point at manual rear brake recovery like Fe and manual deployment with a button or paddle.

It looks great for an evolution.

Holm86
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Holm86 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:33 am

More noise will come from an increased fuel flow limit, and the max fuel limit will be reached at a higher RPM, around 13-15.000 instead of 10.500 as of now.