2021 Engine thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
toraabe
11
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:42 am

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by toraabe » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:04 am

The max flow will be at 12k so between 12 and 13k will be normal..

Holm86
166
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Holm86 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:06 am

Just hope they will change the bank angle to 120° because a 90° odd firing V6 will never sound great.
At the same time they should allow a hot vee configuration.

mzso
9
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:48 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:06 am
Can we just get 3.2L V12s with a single centrifugal supercharger (max boost @18000rpm), direct injection, and TJI?

Should get us 1500 hp with midrange torque and screaming noise as well as being cheap enough to run a new one every weekend.

And no possible electrocutions... :?
Why not go back to steam engines if we like obsolescent technology that much?

mzso
9
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:51 pm

Holm86 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:06 am
Just hope they will change the bank angle to 120° because a 90° odd firing V6 will never sound great.
At the same time they should allow a hot vee configuration.
Fat chance of that. It would mean a total redesign of the ICE and it would be wider than anyone want.

(Besides the cosworth DFV was a 90°and it had an awesome sound.)

wuzak
353
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by wuzak » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:31 pm

mzso wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:51 pm
(Besides the cosworth DFV was a 90°and it had an awesome sound.)
The Cosworth DFV was a V8, so 90° was more natural for that.

But it also had a flat plane crank, which made it sound different to regular V8s.

saviour stivala
-6
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by saviour stivala » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:16 pm

A racing V8 with flat-plane crank will always sounds better than a V8 with a 90 degree crank. and another thing, a turbocharged engine in whatever configuration will never sound as laud as an NA engine of the same configuration.

Zynerji
60
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Zynerji » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 pm

mzso wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:48 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:06 am
Can we just get 3.2L V12s with a single centrifugal supercharger (max boost @18000rpm), direct injection, and TJI?

Should get us 1500 hp with midrange torque and screaming noise as well as being cheap enough to run a new one every weekend.

And no possible electrocutions... :?
Why not go back to steam engines if we like obsolescent technology that much?
Why does an activity that involves racing bespoke cars around a track require anything as advanced and complicated as the current power units?

If you could get more power from a simpler arrangement, I'd vote for that as well.

And don't forget. A large part of the fan base wants simple engines that do not cause in race failures, or pre race penalties. And they want them loud.

Can steam engines compete on power to weight ratios against a supercharged ICE?

I thought not...

hurril
44
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by hurril » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:24 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 pm
mzso wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:48 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:06 am
Can we just get 3.2L V12s with a single centrifugal supercharger (max boost @18000rpm), direct injection, and TJI?

Should get us 1500 hp with midrange torque and screaming noise as well as being cheap enough to run a new one every weekend.

And no possible electrocutions... :?
Why not go back to steam engines if we like obsolescent technology that much?
Why does an activity that involves racing bespoke cars around a track require anything as advanced and complicated as the current power units?

If you could get more power from a simpler arrangement, I'd vote for that as well.

And don't forget. A large part of the fan base wants simple engines that do not cause in race failures, or pre race penalties. And they want them loud.

Can steam engines compete on power to weight ratios against a supercharged ICE?

I thought not...
It doesn't require it. It's there because it's awesome and cutting edge.

NL_Fer
52
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:28 pm

Notthing is going to change. 90 degree 1.6 V6 Turbo hybrids with exhaust heat recovery.

mzso
9
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:09 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 pm
Why does an activity that involves racing bespoke cars around a track require anything as advanced and complicated as the current power units?

If you could get more power from a simpler arrangement, I'd vote for that as well.
Racing doesn't require cars either. You can watch turtles race.
The one use of motor racing (particularly) is developing modern technology, without that you're just throwing money down the drain. It would be even simpler to throw out the clunky ICE. I'd like that because it would also be progressive as well.
hurril wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:24 pm
And don't forget. A large part of the fan base wants simple engines that do not cause in race failures, or pre race penalties. And they want them loud.
By that you mean yourself. And some other loud whiners.

roon
435
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:24 am

mzso wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:09 pm
You can watch turtles race.
Indeed.



I don't think auto racing will fare well in the coming years. Electrification and automation loom and new frontiers for competition are on the horizon. RIP F1.

hurril
44
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by hurril » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:11 am

mzso wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:09 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 pm
Why does an activity that involves racing bespoke cars around a track require anything as advanced and complicated as the current power units?

If you could get more power from a simpler arrangement, I'd vote for that as well.
Racing doesn't require cars either. You can watch turtles race.
The one use of motor racing (particularly) is developing modern technology, without that you're just throwing money down the drain. It would be even simpler to throw out the clunky ICE. I'd like that because it would also be progressive as well.
hurril wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:24 pm
And don't forget. A large part of the fan base wants simple engines that do not cause in race failures, or pre race penalties. And they want them loud.
I don't like racing or other things that happened after 1971.
I guess we have different opinions.

To be serious. There are a zillion different race formulas out there, I don't understand why you'd want what is currently the technical epitome to match what we had, technically, back in the 60:ies. Why does F1 have to fill that particular niche? Why don't you just watch something else that does have this? I, myself, look at plenty of different racing.

henry
209
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by henry » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:53 am

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 pm


Why does an activity that involves racing bespoke cars around a track require anything as advanced and complicated as the current power units?
It’s because there are multiple objectives served by the one activity.

An objective is to determine which team can design, make and operate the best car. WCC

Another is to determine which driver is best, this almost entirely depends on WCC.

Neither of these requires the complexity we have now.

However there is an objective to provide an advertising platform for the manufacturers, and their associates, sponsors, suppliers etc. And they say they want to use the terms, hybrid, cutting edge, futuristic etc. This is what drives the complexity, and it’s what provides the money to make the activity viable.

A further objective is to make money for FOM. I’m pretty sure they don’t like the complexity either.

So that’s it, if you want a rich sport you get the complexity.

Personally I like the complexity. It gives lots to think about and discuss.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

mzso
9
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:39 am

roon wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:24 am
I don't think auto racing will fare well in the coming years. Electrification and automation loom and new frontiers for competition are on the horizon. RIP F1.
Automation will be only be as significant as much as its allowed. Which will continue to be zero I think.
Though I wouldn't mind a supporting sprint series with software driven cars.

I don't see anything negative in electrification, it's superior to ICE motors and could do with some some creative development to make them even better. Also it will make cars more relevant for the future. (The big thing in internal combustion development in recent years was combining them with an electric motor)
What do you mean by new frontiers?

mzso
9
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:49 am

henry wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:53 am
So that’s it, if you want a rich sport you get the complexity.
F1 also wants to be an innovator and a forrerunner of technology as it was in the past. With the plain dumb 17% efficient NA engines they were anything but. Now at least the PU is modernized and state of the art, if little else is.