2021 Engine thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
roon
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That pdf says it is even compatible with port injection only. I'm not sure how they would accomplish mix stratification near the bulb in such an arrangement. Presumably the jets can adequately form regardless of prechamber richness, as though the flow restriction of the prechamber holes alone are enough.

gruntguru wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:56 am
Think of a cloud of air-fuel mix...
Good explanation. Thank you.

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roon wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm
That pdf says it is even compatible with port injection only. I'm not sure how they would accomplish mix stratification near the bulb in such an arrangement.
The single injector MJI system is not lean burn - it is lambda 1.0. The advantages of the system are rapid combustion, ability to run lambda 1.0 at full load (road car engines typically run 0.9 or richer), and reliable ignition of highly diluted (EGR) mixtures.

The Formula 1 single injector MJI is a lean burn version. It requires direct injection, high injection rates and complex injection strategies and mapping.
je suis charlie

roon
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gruntguru wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:25 am
roon wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm
That pdf says it is even compatible with port injection only. I'm not sure how they would accomplish mix stratification near the bulb in such an arrangement.
The single injector MJI system is not lean burn - it is lambda 1.0. The advantages of the system are rapid combustion, ability to run lambda 1.0 at full load (road car engines typically run 0.9 or richer), and reliable ignition of highly diluted (EGR) mixtures.

The Formula 1 single injector MJI is a lean burn version. It requires direct injection, high injection rates and complex injection strategies and mapping.
Thank you. I was under the impression that a relatively rich mixture, relative to CC AFR, was needed inside the prechamber to create these jets. Seemingly not. Anyway, lean burn and stratification would not be mutually exclusive would they? As AFR and lambda only refer to charge composition and stratification refers only to distribution. Could have one large droplet of fuel providing lambda 1 or less, at stratification greater than a highly leaned F1 engine.

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:51 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:34 pm
Braking does for the K
Braking only provides about 20% of the power that the K currently puts out, where are you going to get the rest of the 80% that the H currently provides?
Electric fuel accumulation via ICE overrun with K generating. It's what teams did during the KERS years and what they are likely doing now at certain points. We know Honda does it, or at least did it, in 2017.
Honda!

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NL_Fer
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Manufactorers are talking about an 2021 engine freeze, instead of a evolution of the rules. But with such complex combustion. How much can still be gained from a frozen engine, just with tweaking the injection/ignition mapping?

mzso
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Hi!
I skimmed the press conference. What does "standard HP" fuel pump means?

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mzso wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:48 pm
Hi!
I skimmed the press conference. What does "standard HP" fuel pump means?
Spec high pressure fuel pump for all teams

gshevlin
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NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Manufactorers are talking about an 2021 engine freeze, instead of a evolution of the rules. But with such complex combustion. How much can still be gained from a frozen engine, just with tweaking the injection/ignition mapping?
The last time there was an engine "freeze", Renault took the word literally and ceased development. Then they found out that their rivals were sneaking engine improvements into their products under the guise of "reliability" changes. That will happen again.

NL_Fer
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gshevlin wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:33 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Manufactorers are talking about an 2021 engine freeze, instead of a evolution of the rules. But with such complex combustion. How much can still be gained from a frozen engine, just with tweaking the injection/ignition mapping?
The last time there was an engine "freeze", Renault took the word literally and ceased development. Then they found out that their rivals were sneaking engine improvements into their products under the guise of "reliability" changes. That will happen again.
In 2008 reliability updates were permitted and Renault suffered for being to honest. The 2009-2013 was really frozen and Renault was the smartest with their software updates exploiting exhaust blown diffusers.

Works both ways.

mzso
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So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?

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mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm
So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?
Yes, the PUs won't change.

mzso
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MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:30 pm
mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm
So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?
Yes, the PUs won't change.
Oh well. Maybe they held back on development for the time being so they can go to full electric in a few years. :)

pb6797
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mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:22 pm
MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:30 pm
mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm
So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?
Yes, the PUs won't change.
Oh well. Maybe they held back on development for the time being so they can go to full electric in a few years. :)
Unlikely, they have about 1350kWh of energy in the 100kg of fuel and can use about 650kWh of it (the rest is lost to inefficiencies).

An electric motor might reach 95% efficiency so to equal the energy available you need ~ 620kWh of batteries. We currently have about 250Wh/kg and might with more exotic materials and lots of research and luck maybe manage to make it to 500Wh/kg. i.e. 0.5kWh/kg. So you would need 1240kg of batteries, 12x the current fuel mass and ~2x the current total car weight, just for your (not yet achievable) batteries.

There is a reason Formula E runs on small street circuits at relatively low speeds.

mzso
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pb6797 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:11 pm
mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:22 pm
MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:30 pm


Yes, the PUs won't change.
Oh well. Maybe they held back on development for the time being so they can go to full electric in a few years. :)
Unlikely, they have about 1350kWh of energy in the 100kg of fuel and can use about 650kWh of it (the rest is lost to inefficiencies).

An electric motor might reach 95% efficiency so to equal the energy available you need ~ 620kWh of batteries. We currently have about 250Wh/kg and might with more exotic materials and lots of research and luck maybe manage to make it to 500Wh/kg. i.e. 0.5kWh/kg. So you would need 1240kg of batteries, 12x the current fuel mass and ~2x the current total car weight, just for your (not yet achievable) batteries.

There is a reason Formula E runs on small street circuits at relatively low speeds.
You can have a similar amount of energy in butane (bio-butane, if you want to be "green"). You would need some cutting edge fuel cell, and also some battery and/or super capacitor buffer, but you would also throw out the ICE, most/all of the transmission/differential/driveshafts and could have much reduced cooling. Also regenerative braking would aid you significantly.
All of this would require big money, which F1 has. And will have even more available if they stop wasting it on aero.