2021 Engine thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
trinidefender
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by trinidefender » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:10 pm

MAHLE has stated that they have developed a version with only one injector outside of the prechamber.
Two versions of the MJI system have been developed:
Active MJI featuring a spark plug and micro- ow fuel injector within the pre-chamber
Passive MJI which only contains a spark-plug
Passive MJI
1 fuel injector utilised:
• 1 Injector (DI or PFI) for delivering the main charge
• No injector required in the pre-chamber
(fuelling carried over from main chamber)
https://www.mahle-powertrain.com/media/ ... mation.pdf

roon
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm

That pdf says it is even compatible with port injection only. I'm not sure how they would accomplish mix stratification near the bulb in such an arrangement. Presumably the jets can adequately form regardless of prechamber richness, as though the flow restriction of the prechamber holes alone are enough.

gruntguru wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:56 am
Think of a cloud of air-fuel mix...
Good explanation. Thank you.

gruntguru
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by gruntguru » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:25 am

roon wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm
That pdf says it is even compatible with port injection only. I'm not sure how they would accomplish mix stratification near the bulb in such an arrangement.
The single injector MJI system is not lean burn - it is lambda 1.0. The advantages of the system are rapid combustion, ability to run lambda 1.0 at full load (road car engines typically run 0.9 or richer), and reliable ignition of highly diluted (EGR) mixtures.

The Formula 1 single injector MJI is a lean burn version. It requires direct injection, high injection rates and complex injection strategies and mapping.
je suis charlie

roon
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:52 am

gruntguru wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:25 am
roon wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm
That pdf says it is even compatible with port injection only. I'm not sure how they would accomplish mix stratification near the bulb in such an arrangement.
The single injector MJI system is not lean burn - it is lambda 1.0. The advantages of the system are rapid combustion, ability to run lambda 1.0 at full load (road car engines typically run 0.9 or richer), and reliable ignition of highly diluted (EGR) mixtures.

The Formula 1 single injector MJI is a lean burn version. It requires direct injection, high injection rates and complex injection strategies and mapping.
Thank you. I was under the impression that a relatively rich mixture, relative to CC AFR, was needed inside the prechamber to create these jets. Seemingly not. Anyway, lean burn and stratification would not be mutually exclusive would they? As AFR and lambda only refer to charge composition and stratification refers only to distribution. Could have one large droplet of fuel providing lambda 1 or less, at stratification greater than a highly leaned F1 engine.

dren
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by dren » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:47 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:51 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:34 pm
Braking does for the K
Braking only provides about 20% of the power that the K currently puts out, where are you going to get the rest of the 80% that the H currently provides?
Electric fuel accumulation via ICE overrun with K generating. It's what teams did during the KERS years and what they are likely doing now at certain points. We know Honda does it, or at least did it, in 2017.
Honda!

roon
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:30 am


NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:49 pm

Manufactorers are talking about an 2021 engine freeze, instead of a evolution of the rules. But with such complex combustion. How much can still be gained from a frozen engine, just with tweaking the injection/ignition mapping?

mzso
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:48 pm

Hi!
I skimmed the press conference. What does "standard HP" fuel pump means?

MtthsMlw
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by MtthsMlw » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:57 pm

mzso wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:48 pm
Hi!
I skimmed the press conference. What does "standard HP" fuel pump means?
Spec high pressure fuel pump for all teams

gshevlin
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by gshevlin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:33 am

NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Manufactorers are talking about an 2021 engine freeze, instead of a evolution of the rules. But with such complex combustion. How much can still be gained from a frozen engine, just with tweaking the injection/ignition mapping?
The last time there was an engine "freeze", Renault took the word literally and ceased development. Then they found out that their rivals were sneaking engine improvements into their products under the guise of "reliability" changes. That will happen again.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by NL_Fer » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:03 am

gshevlin wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:33 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Manufactorers are talking about an 2021 engine freeze, instead of a evolution of the rules. But with such complex combustion. How much can still be gained from a frozen engine, just with tweaking the injection/ignition mapping?
The last time there was an engine "freeze", Renault took the word literally and ceased development. Then they found out that their rivals were sneaking engine improvements into their products under the guise of "reliability" changes. That will happen again.
In 2008 reliability updates were permitted and Renault suffered for being to honest. The 2009-2013 was really frozen and Renault was the smartest with their software updates exploiting exhaust blown diffusers.

Works both ways.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm

So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?

MtthsMlw
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:30 pm

mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm
So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?
Yes, the PUs won't change.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by mzso » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:22 pm

MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:30 pm
mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm
So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?
Yes, the PUs won't change.
Oh well. Maybe they held back on development for the time being so they can go to full electric in a few years. :)

pb6797
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by pb6797 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:11 pm

mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:22 pm
MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:30 pm
mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm
So. Seeing as it wasn't mentioned anywhere was the increased MGU power and storage capacity abandoned?
Yes, the PUs won't change.
Oh well. Maybe they held back on development for the time being so they can go to full electric in a few years. :)
Unlikely, they have about 1350kWh of energy in the 100kg of fuel and can use about 650kWh of it (the rest is lost to inefficiencies).

An electric motor might reach 95% efficiency so to equal the energy available you need ~ 620kWh of batteries. We currently have about 250Wh/kg and might with more exotic materials and lots of research and luck maybe manage to make it to 500Wh/kg. i.e. 0.5kWh/kg. So you would need 1240kg of batteries, 12x the current fuel mass and ~2x the current total car weight, just for your (not yet achievable) batteries.

There is a reason Formula E runs on small street circuits at relatively low speeds.