2021 Engine thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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humble sabot
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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It's almost not relevant to the 2021 decision, but I'd love to see the fuel flow cap lifted. In terms of fuel spent per race, it won't change things, but it might add some dynamism back in.

I imagine the inline 3 is way they'll go, speaking to those points about road relevance. I could see battery packs remaining around where they are now.
If i had my druthers, I'd probably can the formula on the ICE too and just have a capacity limit. Different engine behaviours for similar output make for more interesting racing I find. Though we are getting a bit of that with the current IMO overcomplicated PU formula.
Still talking about my own opinion but i think sophisticated but simple powertrains are more likely to find relevance going forward. Whatever one thinks of hydrogen as a widespread energy storage method, Riversimple has put together an ingeniously simple but deceptively sophisticated topology which IMO has some real potential.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

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SR71
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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More electric please.

Batteries should be 2 generations newer than we have now. Lighter, higher capacity, faster charge/discharge are all safe assumptions.

Electric motors should be even lighter.

All very F1 things...

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mclaren111
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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Noise, noise & more noise [-o< [-o< [-o<

And no fuel limit nonsense [-o< [-o< [-o<

wuzak
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godlameroso wrote:Next year the cars are going to blow away anything you've seen thus far. The cars will be at the same level as the 2010 cars to start the season, and may end up surpassing the 2002 or 2004 cars. All with tiny little engines that put out more power with less fuel and more weight than it's counterparts. I think this formula is still in it's infancy, and if there's any change after 2020, they should limit it to maybe increasing the energy per lap from the ERS to 8MJ per lap, and reduce the fuel tank to 80kg. Increase the power of the mgu-k to 180kW, and this will keep roughly the same combined power but will shift the emphasis to the electric motor side.

This way teams will struggle to keep the ERS topped off, and will have more than enough electric power to compensate for the reduced fuel.
Next year's cars will be faster than the 2010 cars.

hurril
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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mclaren111 wrote:Noise, noise & more noise [-o< [-o< [-o<

And no fuel limit nonsense [-o< [-o< [-o<
A lot of you seems to think that you don't want the fuel limit. Without it, all this ERS business is pretty much unnecessary.

3jawchuck
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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hurril wrote:
mclaren111 wrote:Noise, noise & more noise [-o< [-o< [-o<

And no fuel limit nonsense [-o< [-o< [-o<
A lot of you seems to think that you don't want the fuel limit. Without it, all this ERS business is pretty much unnecessary.
I think most people mean removing the flow limit but keeping the total fuel/energy attainable from fuel limit per race.

PABLOEING
PABLOEING
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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¿Any chance to return to V10?

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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3jawchuck wrote:
hurril wrote:
mclaren111 wrote:Noise, noise & more noise [-o< [-o< [-o<

And no fuel limit nonsense [-o< [-o< [-o<
A lot of you seems to think that you don't want the fuel limit. Without it, all this ERS business is pretty much unnecessary.
I think most people mean removing the flow limit but keeping the total fuel/energy attainable from fuel limit per race.
I think what most of the "fuel flow nonsense people" don't realise that it's a power limiter.
The engine formula in F1 has always been restrictive in power-output, except for a brief period of the first turbo era during the early eighties before they restricted the boost (and when you had those 1200bhp qualifying engines from BMW).

The most restricted engines so far were the last years of the V8 2.4, with the rev limiter and thats why in those years it was the first time that engines didn't matter.
capacity or rev limits don't work on turbo engines. It's about air and fuel. The cheap option (what they do in other classes with turbo engines) is either have an air restrictor (like they used to have in WRC, remember Toyota?) or a boost limit (with a popup valve, not wonderful either). To keep it a bit modern and relevant (and work with lean burn engines and not drowning the engines in unburned fuel), a fuel flow limit isn't a bad thing.

No fuel flow limit would mean infinite power, certainly with the current state of tech (much more advanced then the early eighties) and racing would all be who dares or can turn up the boost the most for the final overtake in the last corner, really nothing to do with racing whatsoever but more a drag race.

releasing the max fuel per race makes more sense. But then again, drivers will still be saving fuel (most of the races they aren't taking the 100kg of fuel with them anyway) because weight slows them down. It's faster over a GP to save a bit of fuel a few laps then to haul the extra kg's with you.

The step from very restricted V8's to these PU's has been a big one, but the last years of the V8 were not-F1 worthy in my opinion, they should have gone for a V6T with the K package of the time. Now we went from hi-tech to low-tech to ultra-tech.

And V10's? come on, that was from 10-20 years ago. do it right then, bring back the V12! that was a noise! oh no... wait.. the 1.6 V6 T Honda was also cool... or the TAG... or... or... the V8 Cosworth? there was a cool H16 somewhere in the past....

hurril
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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I really like the current formula and I would only change tiny things. Like: adjust the fuel limits a little bit to get a little more revs on the engines.

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mclaren111
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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A 6 speed gearbox would also get the revs up nicely

crackers
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i would love to see a grid featuring a range of power trains using different technolgies. Cylinder counts and layout, KERS, turbo, supercharging, compounding, whatever the engine manufacturer chooses to do that represents their brand and values.

The only rule would be that the power produced must be relative to the weight of the car. 1bhp for every kg the car weighs.

I would love to see how a championship unfolds with 500bhp 1/2 tonne lightweights vs 1000bhp tonne cars. Each race would have different winners because of the requirements of each of the tracks. (Monaco vs Spa)

There should be a third championship for Engine manufacturers giving us a Drivers, Teams and Engine World Championship.

I believe (and would love to hear your thoughts) that many more engine manufacturers would enter, costs would be lower and the championship more exciting.

hurril
hurril
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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crackers wrote:i would love to see a grid featuring a range of power trains using different technolgies. Cylinder counts and layout, KERS, turbo, supercharging, compounding, whatever the engine manufacturer chooses to do that represents their brand and values.

The only rule would be that the power produced must be relative to the weight of the car. 1bhp for every kg the car weighs.

I would love to see how a championship unfolds with 500bhp 1/2 tonne lightweights vs 1000bhp tonne cars. Each race would have different winners because of the requirements of each of the tracks. (Monaco vs Spa)

There should be a third championship for Engine manufacturers giving us a Drivers, Teams and Engine World Championship.

I believe (and would love to hear your thoughts) that many more engine manufacturers would enter, costs would be lower and the championship more exciting.
But it would be utterly uninteresting because what would be the point? I can see how varying the cylinder count with the current formula could be interesting. Say, 4-8 cylinders - you pick the configuration that suits you. There is still something very interesting about a formula where so much comes down to strategy, efficiency and software.

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markc
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I posted one previously about making a set amount of kg of fuel available per race, irrespective of what that fuel was.
The total kg of fuel each competitor had was based on the energy density of the fuel in question: Diesel, Petrol, RedBull etc...
No limit to energy recovery.
No limit on what that recovery was.
No limit on what the "engine" was.

Imagine that in the boiler room of F1.

I guess I'm in the "Let them spend if they want to spend" camp!

Ozan
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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I would love to see an engine formula which is:

- 2.4 litre v8 twin turbo
- unlimited energy recovery
- unlimited fuel flow
- refueling formula is back
- no restrictions on engine development

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Engine thread

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Ozan wrote:I would love to see an engine formula which is:

- 2.4 litre v8 twin turbo
- unlimited energy recovery
- unlimited fuel flow
- refueling formula is back
- no restrictions on engine development
Imagine what you would get?

-5000+ bhp
-pit stop every 5 laps
-cars looking more like top fuel drag racers then racing cars