F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Brian Coat
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Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian Coat » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:11 am

riff_raff wrote:Seems strange that they use an aluminum piston and a steel bore sleeve. I can see the reason for using an aluminum piston, both in terms of reduced mass and heat transfer required from the gas compression heating occurring within the cylinder volume. Would be interesting to know why they use a steel sleeve in the aluminum cylinder housing. There are very durable coatings like Nikasil that can be applied to aluminum, which would seem to be a better option than using a separate steel liner in the aluminum housing. But I'm sure the guys designing the system knew what they were doing, and had a reason for making it like that.
Was the liner always there?

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... orth-2.jpg

My eyes are not great but I cannot see it here, nor the top flange, gap & retainer ring.

Brian.G
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian.G » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:27 pm

Brian Coat wrote:
riff_raff wrote:Seems strange that they use an aluminum piston and a steel bore sleeve. I can see the reason for using an aluminum piston, both in terms of reduced mass and heat transfer required from the gas compression heating occurring within the cylinder volume. Would be interesting to know why they use a steel sleeve in the aluminum cylinder housing. There are very durable coatings like Nikasil that can be applied to aluminum, which would seem to be a better option than using a separate steel liner in the aluminum housing. But I'm sure the guys designing the system knew what they were doing, and had a reason for making it like that.
Was the liner always there?

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... orth-2.jpg

My eyes are not great but I cannot see it here, nor the top flange, gap & retainer ring.
I'm told that the liner was always there, and had been removed from the assemblies in some photos - it was certainly removed from the well publicized magazine article which featured a photo of the barrel assembly. There is an o-ring present in that shot down the bore which made no sense - and one of many reasons I set out obtaining one. Turns out that o-ring was for sealing the steel liner. Many pictures circulating up until this cannot be trusted with some parts omitted to keep designs under wraps.

@riff_raff, I guess aluminum pistons and steel liners in an aluminum housing is well understood - particularly given the fact that many F1 engines themselves used the same combination; sleeved blocks.

The steel liner/sleeves for the "AVS" Pneumatic Valve Spring assemblies are also listed as being made by an outside vendor.

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

Brian Coat
98
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:42 pm

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian Coat » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:07 pm

Brian.G wrote:
Brian Coat wrote:
riff_raff wrote:Seems strange that they use an aluminum piston and a steel bore sleeve. I can see the reason for using an aluminum piston, both in terms of reduced mass and heat transfer required from the gas compression heating occurring within the cylinder volume. Would be interesting to know why they use a steel sleeve in the aluminum cylinder housing. There are very durable coatings like Nikasil that can be applied to aluminum, which would seem to be a better option than using a separate steel liner in the aluminum housing. But I'm sure the guys designing the system knew what they were doing, and had a reason for making it like that.
Was the liner always there?

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... orth-2.jpg

My eyes are not great but I cannot see it here, nor the top flange, gap & retainer ring.
I'm told that the liner was always there, and had been removed from the assemblies in some photos - it was certainly removed from the well publicized magazine article which featured a photo of the barrel assembly. There is an o-ring present in that shot down the bore which made no sense - and one of many reasons I set out obtaining one. Turns out that o-ring was for sealing the steel liner. Many pictures circulating up until this cannot be trusted with some parts omitted to keep designs under wraps.

@riff_raff, I guess aluminum pistons and steel liners in an aluminum housing is well understood - particularly given the fact that many F1 engines themselves used the same combination; sleeved blocks.

The steel liner/sleeves for the "AVS" Pneumatic Valve Spring assemblies are also listed as being made by an outside vendor.

Brian,
Thanks, Brian. Very interesting.

Brian.G
261
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian.G » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:41 am

Got a chance this evening to press out the sleeve - heated body to approx 180 degrees first then light pressure with delrin anvils pushed it out - there was possibly no need for heat, but this assembly was pretty expensive so I want to try keep hammer marks to a minimum....

Image

Image

I really need to get lint free micro fiber cloths...

Image

Image

Decent chamfer at the top of alloy assembly,

Image

Sealing o-ring as mentioned in previous post,

Image

Inserted a few mm once again,

Image

A view from the bottom, with liner and o-ring in view,

Image

Tomorrow evening I hope to have a good look at the intake pressurized air way and return drilling,

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

hpras
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 5:15 am

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by hpras » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:10 am

Wow, excellent thread. Though I think you may have "blown your cover" (with a wink wink) with that serial number on the sleeve.....

Brian.G
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Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian.G » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:20 pm

hpras wrote:Wow, excellent thread. Though I think you may have "blown your cover" (with a wink wink) with that serial number on the sleeve.....
I didn't say anything :wink:

Thanks for comment on thread!


Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

raphaelorlove
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:20 pm

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by raphaelorlove » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:25 pm

Holy --- this is amazing! I write for Jalopnik -- could I use one of these pictures on a post about this on Jalopnik? I'd link back to here and credit you, it's just so cool to be able to see one of these things in full. -- Raphael (feel free to email me at raphael@jalopnik.com)

Brian.G
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian.G » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:52 pm

raphaelorlove wrote:Holy --- this is amazing! I write for Jalopnik -- could I use one of these pictures on a post about this on Jalopnik? I'd link back to here and credit you, it's just so cool to be able to see one of these things in full. -- Raphael (feel free to email me at raphael@jalopnik.com)
Raphael, yes, sure - no problem at all.

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

Facts Only
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Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Facts Only » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:50 pm

Brian.G wrote:
hpras wrote:Wow, excellent thread. Though I think you may have "blown your cover" (with a wink wink) with that serial number on the sleeve.....
I didn't say anything :wink:

Thanks for comment on thread!


Brian,
Its a good giveway. Really enjoying seeing this stuff out in public view for once.

Are you a collector of F1 parts/memorablia?
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

Brian.G
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian.G » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:04 pm

Facts Only wrote:
Brian.G wrote:
hpras wrote:Wow, excellent thread. Though I think you may have "blown your cover" (with a wink wink) with that serial number on the sleeve.....
I didn't say anything :wink:

Thanks for comment on thread!


Brian,
Its a good giveway. Really enjoying seeing this stuff out in public view for once.

Are you a collector of F1 parts/memorablia?
Not a collector no - Just like to get a close look at some of the more interesting parts! I don't believe in filling cabinets with pretty parts and would chop up anything in a heartbeat if I thought ya'd learn from it.

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

PlatinumZealot
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Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:13 pm

Thanks for the post. Brian number 1.

The mechanism itself is very simple... just a piston some guides a few seals.. a spring.. a ball.. etc.. but when you talk about engineering design and optimization it is some aerospace level stuff..

I can only imagine how light it is.. probably only a few grams...

I was impressed with the steel sleeve and that it was actually honed.

I wonder how long the piston seal lasts though.

And it looks like it came from a cosworth engine?
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

flynfrog
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Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by flynfrog » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:03 am

Excellent as always Brian.

strad
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Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by strad » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:23 am

Top Notch
Thank You Brian.G
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

shady
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Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by shady » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:17 pm

Excellent writeup and top notch photographs thanks for sharing!

Brian.G
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Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Pneumatic Valve Spring, a closer look

Post by Brian.G » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:00 pm

Thanks folks!

Hoping to get time soon to have a look at the air pressure drillings as mentioned and maybe get it pressurized to do some tests.

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will