F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Brian.G
Brian.G
267
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

Mudflap wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:03 pm
Amazing, did you manage to get a complete unit ?
Its 98% Complete yes.....and what a journey it was finding one! A childhood dream come true at last.

Have remainder parts being sourced at the moment from the guys at Modatek.

Brian,
Last edited by Brian.G on Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

I understand that the cam lobe profiles on F1 engines were ground with some compensation for torsional deflection along the shaft length.
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
30
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

What is the design of a 'cam roller damper' look like?

Brian

User avatar
Mudflap
239
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

hardingfv32 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:18 pm
What is the design of a 'cam roller damper' look like?

Brian
Hi Brian,

'Roller damper' is the colloquial name for a Salomon type centrifugal pendulum absorber.
It consists of a flange with equi spaced holes about the CL of the shaft in which the rollers (similar to a roller bearing element, but usually made of a high density metals such as tungsten) lie. Their axes are parallel to the shaft axis and they are free to orbit within their bores once the centrifugal force overcomes gravity. The axial motion is constrained.
How much TQ does it make though?

Brian.G
Brian.G
267
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

Mudflap wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:44 pm
hardingfv32 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:18 pm
What is the design of a 'cam roller damper' look like?

Brian
Hi Brian,

'Roller damper' is the colloquial name for a Salomon type centrifugal pendulum absorber.
It consists of a flange with equi spaced holes about the CL of the shaft in which the rollers (similar to a roller bearing element, but usually made of a high density metals such as tungsten) lie. Their axes are parallel to the shaft axis and they are free to orbit within their bores once the centrifugal force overcomes gravity. The axial motion is constrained.
The Patent and drawings for said damper,

https://www.google.com/patents/US5295411

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

User avatar
Mudflap
239
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

I think the original patent was the one submitted by Salomon half a century before (see citations) hence the name of the device.
How much TQ does it make though?

riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

I believe they are also called bifilar pendulum torsional absorbers.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ng_engines
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

User avatar
Mudflap
239
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

Bifilar means that they are suspended at 2 points - to my knowledge these have not been used in F1 and I think the reason is that they tend to have higher inertia. They have been used in automotive cranks and are commonplace in helicopter rotors though.

But they too are a type of centrifugal pendulum absorbers as you have stated, just not the same as Salomon/roll form type.
How much TQ does it make though?

Smokes
Smokes
4
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:47 pm

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

Just Curious I wondering if these type of dampers are used on traverse drive mechanisms where servo motor drives something backwards and forwards.

Brian.G
Brian.G
267
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

Smokes wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:43 pm
Just Curious I wondering if these type of dampers are used on traverse drive mechanisms where servo motor drives something backwards and forwards.
They are sometimes used between ball screw and motor in the form of an elastomer coupling. I would think the torsional vibration would be greater however with a stepper as opposed to a servo due to how a stepper works and its positioning via step pulse, or micro steps. This vibration can sometimes show itself with rack and pinion stepper drives too, but in a lot of cases with racks and indeed ballscrews a toothed belt drive is an easy dampening option - it can also help too with packaging length.

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

User avatar
jtveg
1
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:19 am

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

Thanks for a very interesting, insightful and technical article. I very much appreciated the many detail photos.

I look forward to many more such articles on the inner workings of F1 engines.

Brian.G
Brian.G
267
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 Timing Gear Damper, a closer look

Post

jtveg wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:25 am
Thanks for a very interesting, insightful and technical article. I very much appreciated the many detail photos.

I look forward to many more such articles on the inner workings of F1 engines.
Thanks - and welcome to F1 Technical!

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will