3 Engine Regulation

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
swarren7
swarren7
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3 Engine Regulation

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If all the manufactures/teams are against the new 2018 rule of only 3 engines for the season I propose the following: All the team principals get together and decide on a specific race and every car from each team change all the engine components at the same time after qualifying. In this scenario, all the teams would be penalized the same so the qualifying order wouldn't change and they would all gain an extra engine for the season. Thoughts?

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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swarren7 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:57 pm
If all the manufactures/teams are against the new 2018 rule of only 3 engines for the season I propose the following: All the team principals get together and decide on a specific race and every car from each team change all the engine components at the same time after qualifying. In this scenario, all the teams would be penalized the same so the qualifying order wouldn't change and they would all gain an extra engine for the season. Thoughts?
are they?

The rules, especially rules like these come from the meetings that the FIA has with the teams/manufacturers.
Don't make this forum in a "everything is terrible, yesterday was better" grumpy old man style.

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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One has to wonder if the engine rule was just a 'I can do better than you' pissing match that just went too far.

Let's see if anyone makes it to the end on 3. Personally, I'd aim for a penalty late for the fresh engine, as if the championships are close, the team on its third, dialed back engine would be hugely disadvantaged if someone took a new engine in Japan as a surprise, planned upgrade.
Last edited by Zynerji on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

marmer
marmer
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Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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swarren7 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:57 pm
If all the manufactures/teams are against the new 2018 rule of only 3 engines for the season I propose the following: All the team principals get together and decide on a specific race and every car from each team change all the engine components at the same time after qualifying. In this scenario, all the teams would be penalized the same so the qualifying order wouldn't change and they would all gain an extra engine for the season. Thoughts?
they are almost all in sync for the first upgrade in Barcelona. but teams are ultimately out for themselves. if you had marginal engine but your upgrade was ready why would you wait just because of a gentleman's agreement.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Location: Altair IV.

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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Seems to me - to be yet another counter-productive effect of the current (ill-considered) 'economy run' formula.

False economy - due to 'unforseen consequences' ( by purblind management-type regulation promulgators),
by which the unit cost of each engine goes up - in proportion to its (unrealistic) power VS longevity requirement.
Dr Moreau sez..
"Who breaks the law... goes back to the House of Pain!"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:46 pm
One has to wonder if the engine rule was just a 'I can do better than you' pissing match that just went too far.
Motorsport could almost be defined as "I can do better than you". These are competitive people trying to outdo each other. Where's the surprise?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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J.A.W. wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 am
Seems to me - to be yet another counter-productive effect of the current (ill-considered) 'economy run' formula.

False economy - due to 'unforseen consequences' ( by purblind management-type regulation promulgators),
by which the unit cost of each engine goes up - in proportion to its (unrealistic) power VS longevity requirement.
No "false economy" at all, the customer teams wanted cheaper lease rates(and they got it), the manufacturers agreed to do so by lowering the number of PUs for the year, everyone(that matters) is happy, except for some fans.
Last edited by turbof1 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed provocation.

zac510
zac510
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:58 am

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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swarren7 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:57 pm
All the team principals get together and decide
That'd have been a great April Fools joke :)

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Location: Altair IV.

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 pm
J.A.W. wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 am
Seems to me - to be yet another counter-productive effect of the current (ill-considered) 'economy run' formula.

False economy - due to 'unforseen consequences' ( by purblind management-type regulation promulgators),
by which the unit cost of each engine goes up - in proportion to its (unrealistic) power VS longevity requirement.
No "false economy" at all, the customer teams wanted cheaper lease rates(and they got it), the manufacturers agreed to do so by lowering the number of PUs for the year, everyone(that matters) is happy, except for some fans.

Well, we'll see about that, as things actually pan-out, in competition - over the course of the season, won't we...
Dr Moreau sez..
"Who breaks the law... goes back to the House of Pain!"

FastFreddy
FastFreddy
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:46 pm

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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So knowing about zero about this three engine rule and F1 rules in general, I need to ask what may be a silly question. Are these three engines sealed, then run them till they fail or performance declines until they are uncompetitive, basically all year, or do these units get maintenance between races?

FastFreddy

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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FastFreddy wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:17 am
So knowing about zero about this three engine rule and F1 rules in general, I need to ask what may be a silly question. Are these three engines sealed, then run them till they fail or performance declines until they are uncompetitive, basically all year, or do these units get maintenance between races?

FastFreddy
One would think, since cost cutting was the excuse for these engine rules, that basic rebuilds would be allowed between events, but unfortunately it is not as that would make way too much sense.

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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I personally hate the 3 engine rule. I think 4 was reasonable.
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 pm
J.A.W. wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 am
Seems to me - to be yet another counter-productive effect of the current (ill-considered) 'economy run' formula.

False economy - due to 'unforseen consequences' ( by purblind management-type regulation promulgators),
by which the unit cost of each engine goes up - in proportion to its (unrealistic) power VS longevity requirement.
No "false economy" at all, the customer teams wanted cheaper lease rates(and they got it), the manufacturers agreed to do so by lowering the number of PUs for the year, everyone(that matters) is happy, except for some fans.
If F1 thinks that it is 'saving money' by only letting teams replace engines 3 times then they are wrong. Manufactures will still spend the same on improvements for the engine, if not more because the margin for error is smaller and the need improvement for each version is bigger - works teams would be cutting there nose off to spite there face if they didn't.

Personally the rule of 4 and the price customer teams were paying should have stayed as it was, no one was forcing anyone to take a 4th engine if the cost bothered them.

zac510
zac510
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:58 am

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:20 am
FastFreddy wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:17 am
So knowing about zero about this three engine rule and F1 rules in general, I need to ask what may be a silly question. Are these three engines sealed, then run them till they fail or performance declines until they are uncompetitive, basically all year, or do these units get maintenance between races?

FastFreddy
One would think, since cost cutting was the excuse for these engine rules, that basic rebuilds would be allowed between events, but unfortunately it is not as that would make way too much sense.
It doesn't make sense to me. Allowing 'basic rebuilds' would just be another rule ripe for exploitation and stretching of the rules. You can't write an F1 rule with a discretionary term like 'basic'.

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

Post

zac510 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:33 am
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:20 am
FastFreddy wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:17 am
So knowing about zero about this three engine rule and F1 rules in general, I need to ask what may be a silly question. Are these three engines sealed, then run them till they fail or performance declines until they are uncompetitive, basically all year, or do these units get maintenance between races?

FastFreddy
One would think, since cost cutting was the excuse for these engine rules, that basic rebuilds would be allowed between events, but unfortunately it is not as that would make way too much sense.
It doesn't make sense to me. Allowing 'basic rebuilds' would just be another rule ripe for exploitation and stretching of the rules. You can't write an F1 rule with a discretionary term like 'basic'.
Gaskets, bearings, piston rings and a rehone.

Basic enough to police? They build the entire chassis under FIA supervision, they can rebuild an ICE the same way.

zac510
zac510
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:58 am

Re: 3 Engine Regulation

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:21 am
zac510 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:33 am
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:20 am


One would think, since cost cutting was the excuse for these engine rules, that basic rebuilds would be allowed between events, but unfortunately it is not as that would make way too much sense.
It doesn't make sense to me. Allowing 'basic rebuilds' would just be another rule ripe for exploitation and stretching of the rules. You can't write an F1 rule with a discretionary term like 'basic'.
Gaskets, bearings, piston rings and a rehone.

Basic enough to police? They build the entire chassis under FIA supervision, they can rebuild an ICE the same way.
But then what's more basic than not having to police it at all?
I know we'd get >7 races per engine and perhaps less power degradation between races, however that doesn't seem to be that much of an attraction to me.