Fuel Limit Changes

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
henry
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Re: Fuel Limit Changes

Post by henry » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:27 pm

MrPotatoHead wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:01 pm
henry wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:58 am
MrPotatoHead wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:00 pm
The only reason the max fuel load isn't used most of the time is because of the fuel flow limit.
How do you arrive at this assertion?

Looking at China. From last year’s qualifying lap it’s about 60% Max torque demand and 15% zero ( harder to measure but a ballpark) in a 90 minute race that would be 90kg at 100 kg/hr leaving 15kg for the 25% part throttle, which doesn’t seem enough.

Perhaps another reason for not needing the full quantity is the tyres. Running max available power would likely reduce their life unacceptably so they don’t run up to the flow limits or approach the max load.

An increase to 110 kg may change things at one or 2 circuits but in general if they want to encourage pit stops by having limited durability tyres then teams will always short fill as much as possible.
If there was no fuel flow limit they would rev the engines higher, make more power and use a lot more fuel.
That is why I make that comment.
Fair point.

However, they could make more power now by going up to the limit and use the full 105 kg allowed, but they don’t. So if you removed the flow limit but kept the quantity restriction they might use fuel up to the limit but I don’t think it’s a given. They have other resources to manage, tyres and drive train components.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

MrPotatoHead
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Re: Fuel Limit Changes

Post by MrPotatoHead » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:18 pm

The fuel flow caps the power potential.
They then balance fuel load vs flow (power) vs weight.

But IF they had no limit on flow they could then make enough extra power to overcome the extra weight of fuel I believe.

gruntguru
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Re: Fuel Limit Changes

Post by gruntguru » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:12 am

About double the power - do think that would do it?
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henry
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Re: Fuel Limit Changes

Post by henry » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:08 am

MrPotatoHead wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:18 pm
The fuel flow caps the power potential.
They then balance fuel load vs flow (power) vs weight.

But IF they had no limit on flow they could then make enough extra power to overcome the extra weight of fuel I believe.
I think we agree. The fuel flow regulation constrains the potential to use the full capacity but they choose not to use that full potential.

If the potential was substantially higher they would probably choose to use the whole allowance if for no other reason to fend off or use sudden large bursts in the race.

The way the resource restraints are managed in the race means that the competition to qualify on pole is essentially to decide who can start with the lightest fuel load.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

FightingHellPhish
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Re: Fuel Limit Changes

Post by FightingHellPhish » Thu May 03, 2018 5:19 am

AJI wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:13 am
FightingHellPhish wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:42 am

They want to drop the fuel flow limit for 2021
You mean drop as in no fuel flow limit, or drop as in lower?
as in it goes from 100kg/hr limit to 'if you want to run your engine like a top fuel dragster, you go right on ahead'

AJI
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Re: Fuel Limit Changes

Post by AJI » Thu May 03, 2018 7:10 am

FightingHellPhish wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:19 am
AJI wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:13 am
FightingHellPhish wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:42 am

They want to drop the fuel flow limit for 2021
You mean drop as in no fuel flow limit, or drop as in lower?
as in it goes from 100kg/hr limit to 'if you want to run your engine like a top fuel dragster, you go right on ahead'
Really? I missed that. I read somewhere that they were talking raising it to 130kgh (or something like that) but that was in the preliminary stages when Ross Brawn threw the initial hand grenade into the room to see if everyone would run out. I liked Ferrari' s response. They just picked it up and put it back on his desk. The pin was still in...