FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
User avatar
henry
306
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:07 pm
henry wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:00 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:47 pm

The engine mode includes power unit, including ERS deployment and recovery
please correct me if i am wrong
I’m afraid you’re wrong.

The engine is the ICE.
1.23 Engine
The internal combustion engine including ancillaries and actuator systems necessary for its proper function.
Thanks for clearing it up

These are the things the so-called ICE mode to be the definition of the following parameters in engine management:
Fuel flow rate
Air volume
Boost pressure
Combustion phasing
Injection times
Switching speed
Fuel temperature
Pressure in the pneumatic valve system, crankcase
oil pressure
Wastegate valve timing and MGU-H working time
Control of the power measured on the output shaft
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/
I don’t understand the last item in that list. Unless they mean feedback from the output shaft SS it is used to ensure things like the new part throttle fuel usage constraint.

I think Wastegate valve timing and MGU-H working time probably refers to anti lag operation. That is MGU-H operation in relation to the ICE rather than the ERS. But I could be completely wrong.

There are 3 other things that are referred to a modes:

ERS modes:
Charge
Neutral
Discharge

PU operation modes, mixing ICE and ERS components, ICE, MGU-K, MGU-H and ES to achieve different power levels ERS energy flows.
For example.
E-boost
Self sustain plus
Self sustain
ICE only
Hot charge

Strategy mode. Selecting which of the PU modes is used at what point on a lap to match the ERS mode and prior to this weekend the overall power level.

I am not sure how all this will knit together under the new rules regime. I would expect attack and defend operations will be softer, since the ICE power variation is now constrained. But what effect this will have on other operations of the PU is difficult to forecast.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

User avatar
1158
54
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:48 am

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

I'm not sure if this was mentioned when the AMuS article was posted (assuming that article is correct). This means all teams running the same PU must run the same mode, despite each team having differences in effectiveness of their cooling. Did I misread the article or is that what the FIA are saying? Doesn't seem prudent to me.

The most extreme example would be Merc and Williams. Merc's optimized cooling must be well ahead of Williams. Not a knock on Williams, just comparing 2 teams with vastly different resources.

Merc is either going to have to detune the Merc PU to work with Williams cooling or Williams is going to have reliability issues.

I realize this is just the ICE modes being fixed, but ICE still generates heat...

User avatar
SiLo
91
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

1158 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:02 pm
I'm not sure if this was mentioned when the AMuS article was posted (assuming that article is correct). This means all teams running the same PU must run the same mode, despite each team having differences in effectiveness of their cooling. Did I misread the article or is that what the FIA are saying? Doesn't seem prudent to me.

The most extreme example would be Merc and Williams. Merc's optimized cooling must be well ahead of Williams. Not a knock on Williams, just comparing 2 teams with vastly different resources.

Merc is either going to have to detune the Merc PU to work with Williams cooling or Williams is going to have reliability issues.

I realize this is just the ICE modes being fixed, but ICE still generates heat...
Surely this can't be right? I'm quite certain that all teams can choose the engine mode they use for quali and the race.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
1158
54
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:48 am

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

SiLo wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:32 pm

Surely this can't be right? I'm quite certain that all teams can choose the engine mode they use for quali and the race.
Seems daft to me, but earlier in this thread...
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:35 am
Yeah i agree

but this is what the article says
I dont know if it just a miss translation, cannot find any english article

"On from the third engine per season, all engines of one manufacturer need to be run in the same mode"

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/

dans79
dans79
248
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

SiLo wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:32 pm
1158 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:02 pm
I'm not sure if this was mentioned when the AMuS article was posted (assuming that article is correct). This means all teams running the same PU must run the same mode, despite each team having differences in effectiveness of their cooling. Did I misread the article or is that what the FIA are saying? Doesn't seem prudent to me.

The most extreme example would be Merc and Williams. Merc's optimized cooling must be well ahead of Williams. Not a knock on Williams, just comparing 2 teams with vastly different resources.

Merc is either going to have to detune the Merc PU to work with Williams cooling or Williams is going to have reliability issues.

I realize this is just the ICE modes being fixed, but ICE still generates heat...
Surely this can't be right? I'm quite certain that all teams can choose the engine mode they use for quali and the race.
Personally I think this is just a journalist who did a crap job.
160 96 91 6

cooken
cooken
5
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:57 am

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

Merc will absolutely not have to detune their mode to suit inferior cooling. Rather the cooling design will have to be revised to accommodate the increased heat output, surely. The engine from Merc will arrive to customers with a new specified heat output and cooling requirements. Up to the customer how they achieve it.

User avatar
Moore77
26
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

1158 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:02 pm
I'm not sure if this was mentioned when the AMuS article was posted (assuming that article is correct). This means all teams running the same PU must run the same mode, despite each team having differences in effectiveness of their cooling. Did I misread the article or is that what the FIA are saying? Doesn't seem prudent to me.

The most extreme example would be Merc and Williams. Merc's optimized cooling must be well ahead of Williams. Not a knock on Williams, just comparing 2 teams with vastly different resources.

Merc is either going to have to detune the Merc PU to work with Williams cooling or Williams is going to have reliability issues.

I realize this is just the ICE modes being fixed, but ICE still generates heat...
Williams has been running the PU to the maximum in qualifyings so far and even in races, probably much harder than Mercedes themselves due to their relative track positions in races. Their cooling isn't as aerodynamically efficient as Mercedes, hence their packaging is also not as great. But their cooling package does its job of keeping the PU as cool as required. So, I don't think Mercedes need to detune the PU for Williams' sake.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

Mchamilton
Mchamilton
8
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post


djones
djones
22
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:01 pm

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

I really hope FOM get a nice close up on Horner if/when the Honda cars relatively drop back with the new rule.

PhillipM
PhillipM
364
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

Horner is gonna realise how much he screwed up very shortly. Honda had a decent qualifying mode.

User avatar
nevill3
27
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Monaco

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

Jensen has stated on Sky that Honda don't have a great qualifying mode, I wonder if that is based on jis experience of them from when he drove their engines?
Sent from my Commodore PET in 1978

User avatar
Big Tea
124
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

nevill3 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:43 pm
Jensen has stated on Sky that Honda don't have a great qualifying mode, I wonder if that is based on jis experience of them from when he drove their engines?
I think that was a very different Honda. The new engine is a different beast altogether.
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

djones
djones
22
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:01 pm

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

Well.... It's certainly not looking good for Redbull at the moment.

0.65 slower and on the softer tyre.

Image

Sevach
Sevach
876
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

Honda didn't make any great progress with the no party mode rule.

Renault is solid number 2 now.

djones
djones
22
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:01 pm

Re: FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

Post

Honda (Redbull) were the ones pushing for the rule and the FIA also thought it would be good for the show in the form of slowing Mercedes down.

Total backfire. And if what people like Russell have said is true then Mercedes will have an even bigger advantage than normal all race duration.

Perfect really. I love it when people try improve by slowing the competition down rather than looking how THEY can improve and it actually makes the competition faster. Karma.