Electrical System

[FW17]

What is the type of electrical system that is currently on an F1 car.
Does it run off the engine as in regular cars?
or is it more innovative as in the 1998 McLaren were brake energy was used to generate electrical power that is stored in batteries. This electricity is then used to run auxiliary pumps on the engine to push out an additional power.

Is it possible to run the entire cars electrical and hydraulic requirement (including ignition) with KERS (the capacity will not be limited as it is not used for propulsion)?

[jake_m]

As far as I know a standard alternator/battery configuration is the norm in F1. Naturally both elements are designed for minimum size and weight. The ECU and primary electrical system is 12V [1]:



It is certainly possible to run the electronics and hydraulics from scavenged energy however it probably would not result in turning faster laps due to increases in battery size, generators, etc. Assuming about 740hp for a F1 engine and that the electronics require 80W we can perform a few quick calculations.

80W = 0.107hp (alternator output power)
0.107/0.9hp = 0.119hp (90% alternator efficiency)
0.119/740*100 = 0.0161% of engine power lost to alternator

The fact is, alternators are quite good at what they do, and even a small change in the aero department caused by introducing energy scavenging hardware would probably devalue any step in performance.


[1] http://argent.fia.com/web/appeloffre.ns ... finale.pdf

[DaveKillens]

The 2010 FIA technical regulations state:

5.8 Electrical systems :
5.8.1 Ignition is only permitted by means of a single ignition coil and single spark plug per cylinder. The use of
plasma, laser or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.
5.8.2 Only conventional spark plugs that function by high tension electrical discharge across an exposed gap are
permitted.
Spark plugs are not subject to the materials restrictions described in Articles 5.13 and 5.14.
5.8.3 Other than for the specific purpose of powering KERS components, the primary regulated voltage on the
car must not exceed 17.0V DC. This voltage is defined as the stabilised output from the on-car charging
system.
With the exception of any KERS or capacitor circuitry or coils being used solely to provide ignition, any
device with a current requirement greater than 50mA or a power requirement greater than 1W may only be
supplied at or below the primary regulated voltage.
Only capacitor discharge ignition systems (those which generate a spark by means of closing a switch
which then discharges a capacitor through the primary side of the ignition coil), are permitted to provide a
voltage higher than the primary regulated voltage to an ignition coil.
Other than any parts being used to supply a higher voltage to devices such as those described in the
previous paragraphs, no device may step up or increase the primary regulated voltage.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 0CLEAN.pdf

But as jake has stated, the basic electrical system for a Formula One car is pretty much the same as a production vehicle. An alternator supplies current, a battery is in the circuit, and that electrical power is used to power the ignition and any other tidbits. Sure, the parts are all custom built, and expensive, but in racing, every gram is important.

It's hard to argue against such a system, it's simple and reliable.

I too also wondered why someone didn't use KERS to power all auxilliaries, such as oil pump, water pump, and hydraulic pumps. Then again, all those extra electric motors could cause their own issues.

[JoeE]

The only team too run kees all season was mcl and even at that it wasnt 100% working. A few
times we heard over the radio for lewis to turn off or reboot his kers system.

Running the most baisc systems of a unit that isn't reliable vs a system that has served them well for years. Don't think there's much of a choice in it to be fair.

Didn't kimis kers catch fire at one stage while coming into the pits

[riff_raff]

DaveKillens,

"I too also wondered why someone didn't use KERS to power all auxilliaries, such as oil pump, water pump, and hydraulic pumps."

Normally, what you suggest would make sense. And in fact, many types of vehicles use electric power for engine auxiliaries like coolant pumps, A/C, or power steering/brakes. But an F1 car is a peculiar situation. An F1 engine is primarily designed to operate at wide-open-throttle conditions 95% of the time, so all of the engine-driven auxiliaries can be optimized for this operating condition.

A mechanical drive system, like gears or chains, is much more efficient and lighter than an electrically driven system. Assuming that no speed variation between the engine and accessory is required.

Currently, most automotive electrical systems for things like lights, stereos, etc. are limited to about 42VDC. The reason being that higher voltages would present a safety hazard. Higher voltages would require smaller and lighter gauge wiring, but would not be safe.

F1 electrical systems are usually pretty minimal, since the cars don't have headlights, cooling fans or starters.

Regards,
riff_raff

[Edis]

What is the type of electrical system that is currently on an F1 car.
Does it run off the engine as in regular cars?
or is it more innovative as in the 1998 McLaren were brake energy was used to generate electrical power that is stored in batteries. This electricity is then used to run auxiliary pumps on the engine to push out an additional power.

Is it possible to run the entire cars electrical and hydraulic requirement (including ignition) with KERS (the capacity will not be limited as it is not used for propulsion)?

It runs of the engine as in normal cars. The biggest difference between a F1 car and a normal car is the type of alternator used in the electrical system. Normal cars use alternators with a wound stator and rotor and they control the voltage output by controling the field strength of the rotor. This kind of alternator is not particulary efficient (40-60%), compact/lightweight and vibration resistant. So F1 cars use a permenent magnet alternator, similar to what most motorcycles are using. A 30A permanent magnet alternator is very compact and lightweight below one kilogram. Since it is tolerant against vibrations and heat it can be mounted directly on the engine. However, since it's impossible to adjust the field strength of a permanent magnet rotor it must be used with an electronic voltage regulator/rectifier.

A small (usually below 10 Ah) battery is also used although the electrical system can usually function without a battery when the engine is running - unlike a normal car.

The hydraulic system is using an engine driven aviation type swash plate pump with variable displacement. For instance Abex supplies such pumps.

[speedsense]

DaveKillens,

"I too also wondered why someone didn't use KERS to power all auxilliaries, such as oil pump, water pump, and hydraulic pumps."

Normally, what you suggest would make sense. And in fact, many types of vehicles use electric power for engine auxiliaries like coolant pumps, A/C, or power steering/brakes. But an F1 car is a peculiar situation. An F1 engine is primarily designed to operate at wide-open-throttle conditions 95% of the time, so all of the engine-driven auxiliaries can be optimized for this operating condition.

A mechanical drive system, like gears or chains, is much more efficient and lighter than an electrically driven system. Assuming that no speed variation between the engine and accessory is required.

Currently, most automotive electrical systems for things like lights, stereos, etc. are limited to about 42VDC. The reason being that higher voltages would present a safety hazard. Higher voltages would require smaller and lighter gauge wiring, but would not be safe.

F1 electrical systems are usually pretty minimal, since the cars don't have headlights, cooling fans or starters.

Regards,
riff_raff

IMHO, Electric systems on a F1 racebcar are higher voltage--wattage intensive. The higher energy ignition, ECU's demanding 40w, data acquition minimum voltage demands, steering actuators and the assorted controllers.
The demand for steady voltage thoughout the rpm range has to be very consistant.

[autogyro]

Running auxiliaries on an F1 car has to be done and uses energy what ever method is used. The current methods using mechanical drive and high efficiency electrical systems is difficult to improve on.
Recovering energy from braking has been used to augment the energy needed for electrical auxiliaries but other than this, within the regulations there is little to be gained.
KERS is a completely different level of energy management.
Of course with unlimited KERS it would be possible to do away with the alternator.

[anna3445]

What is the type of electrical system that is currently on an F1 car.
Does it run off the engine as in regular cars?
or is it more innovative as in the 1998 McLaren were brake energy was used to generate the good soft wiring electrical power that is stored in batteries. This electricity is then used to run auxiliary pumps on the engine to push out an additional power.

Is it possible to run the entire cars electrical and hydraulic requirement (including ignition) with KERS (the capacity will not be limited as it is not used for propulsion)?

hello FW17,
yes it is possible to run the entire cars electrical and hydraulic requirement including the ignition and the capacity is not limited and it will work properly.

[FW17]

What is the type of electrical system that is currently on an F1 car.
Does it run off the engine as in regular cars?
or is it more innovative as in the 1998 McLaren were brake energy was used to generate the good soft wiring electrical power that is stored in batteries. This electricity is then used to run auxiliary pumps on the engine to push out an additional power.

Is it possible to run the entire cars electrical and hydraulic requirement (including ignition) with KERS (the capacity will not be limited as it is not used for propulsion)?

hello FW17,
yes it is possible to run the entire cars electrical and hydraulic requirement including the ignition and the capacity is not limited and it will work properly.

Thanks

I guess it is not done as the rules probably prohibits it.