Rotary valve technology

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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rotaryvalveman
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 11:46
Location: Brisbane

Re: rotary valve technology

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flynfrog.

we are starting with a YZ250cc yamaha which was originally a 5-valve head and we may or may not go to the 450cc version or skip it and go straight to the car engine.

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rotaryvalveman
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Re: rotary valve technology

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tok-tokkie

Thanks for the info on materials but today a strange thing happened.

Quite by accident, I bumped into a guy who makes the machines that apply different coatings to different materials for some big players and I have aranged to broaden the materials I will try as the cost just fell through the floor.

As I said before, the seal material will be a real surprise and a knonck out bit of blindingly obviouse one if you look at things outside the normal constraints.

I will get back to that one in a few months time when I have some more data.

Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Re: rotary valve technology

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tok-tokkie - Glad to spread the news about R Watson, a lot to admire about his engineering projects and life. Thanks for the Wiki on seals. Interesting - the original Cook Seal Company progressed through various owners and is now part of John Crane.

The Yamaha YZ250, is of course a two-stroke engine, while the YZ450 is a four-stroke.

rotaryvalveman-I mentioned modern coatings a few posts back - seems everything is falling into place.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: rotary valve technology

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I think he meant the YFZ 250 the four stroke one. Great reading on Watson btw. Helps to pass the time in my hotel room

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rotaryvalveman
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Re: rotary valve technology

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Yes I do mean the YFZ 250. I real nice little engine,,, for a poppit valve.

If I can achieve half of what Watson did in his life time I will be happy. I have found it interesting reading also.

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flynfrog
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Re: rotary valve technology

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rotaryvalveman wrote:Yes I do mean the YFZ 250. I real nice little engine,,, for a poppit valve.

If I can achieve half of what Watson did in his life time I will be happy. I have found it interesting reading also.
I commend you for picking a tough target to beat that is a really good little engine. I would be interested to see if you can keep up with the modded engines? Or the 2 strokes

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: rotary valve technology

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Rotary-valve man, I can't really see how your valves look from the picture, but you seem to have them between the headbolts. Is it one intake and one exhaust valve for each cylinder and if so in an inline 4 application are they linked together? OR is it one long intake valve and one long exhaust valve similar to the little version i have? Yours looks much more sturdier, I was surprised when you said the flow is much better than the stock 4 valve. As you can see in the picture i posted I tried to make the valve opening similar in area to a poppet valve, so the opening is very large, of course it is just a drawing though, at least I know the opening can be much smaller now.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

tok-tokkie
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Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 16:21
Location: Cape Town

Re: rotary valve technology

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Smikle it seems to me the rotary valves connect between ports on the side of the head & the combustion chamber. The rotary valves run at 1/4 engine speed. Check his picture on the previous page. Spark plug right in the center. Head bolts under the rotary valves so the valves can only be fitted once the head has been torqued down.
It is the novel & simple sealing system for the rotary valves that is the key apparently.

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rotaryvalveman
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 11:46
Location: Brisbane

Re: rotary valve technology

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tok-tokkie
you are absolutly correct. It is about walking away and having a think whilst not taking the whole thing too seriously. That way it makes it easier to clear your mind and let the solutions to come to you, sometimes when you are not even looking for them.
And yes, I thought I would pick the best I could find as it will already be a good base and the numbers will mean more to people like you guys.

Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: rotary valve technology

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Fascinating thread - thanks for all the contributions.

If renewing the seals is as easy as changing a spark plug, then the seals will be accessible without needing to dismantle the head?

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rotaryvalveman
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Re: rotary valve technology

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well, not quite but not far off.

The base of the head stays in place so the head gasket is not disturbed but the top of the head comes off of the bottom. The head bolts are under the rotors as has been seen. the cap of the head covers the rotors to form the other half of the rotor housing. a simple rubber gasket in a mchined slot is enough to isloate water and the like.

split the head, pull the rotors, change the seals and put it all back together.

I am going to see if we can make it a quicker change but once every 50K Miles is not going to be much of a drama.

RH1300S
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

Re: rotary valve technology

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F1Techincal at it's best - no bickering, just a fascinating and productive discussion.

I can't wait to hear the outcome of all this.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: rotary valve technology

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rotaryvalveman wrote:well, not quite but not far off.

The base of the head stays in place so the head gasket is not disturbed but the top of the head comes off of the bottom. The head bolts are under the rotors as has been seen. the cap of the head covers the rotors to form the other half of the rotor housing. a simple rubber gasket in a mchined slot is enough to isloate water and the like.

split the head, pull the rotors, change the seals and put it all back together.

I am going to see if we can make it a quicker change but once every 50K Miles is not going to be much of a drama.
how does this compare with setting the valve lash on the stock head? I know it needs done fairly often.

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rotaryvalveman
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 11:46
Location: Brisbane

Re: rotary valve technology

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Well, it is like this.

there will be nothing to set. nothing to adjust. just about as simple as replacing the spark plugs.

actually not even this.

in a spark plug, there is a gap to set. It will simply be a cartridge.

You no longer have lift to adjust the lash for. nothing to go out of adjustment.

Going back to an earlier question, yes there are two shafts for a single, two or four or even a six cylinder head. each back of cylinders will simply have two shafts. each shaft, inlet or outlet, will have a port machine in it for each cylinder. So, apart form the pully on the front, a head will have two moving parts and a pair of seals for each cylinder.

end of adjustments.

Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: rotary valve technology

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A bit more work than two spark plugs. You’d have to remove the timing belt, and disconnect the plugs.

As you say, it would be worthwhile if only required at 50k assuming it gave the fuel/power benefits you claim. After all, that is only once (or sometimes twice) in the ownership of most cars.

I suppose you have an arrangement where the manifolds are fixed to the lower half of the head? The lower half would be U shaped to allow this. The upper part would be a simple inlay that exposes the rotating valve shaft for maintenance without having to dismantle the manifolds??


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