2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Giblet
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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by Giblet » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:46 pm

Actually, Ford was the only one of the 'big 3' who didn't receive a bailout. They restructured and did everything on their own from what I have read.

This is the North American bailout I am speaking of, which is the only one I was aware of.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by WhiteBlue » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:19 am

godlameroso wrote:BMW GM Ford and Honda were supposedly the biggest car firms to receive bailout money, I don't have the exact source but I remember seeing it somewhere.
How would BMW receive any money? I don't believe the US government would pay for a German company that actually made a profit. And I can definitely say that the German government didn't pay them either. Same would probably be true for Honda. Unless they closed factories in the states and received some subsidies they would have had to weather the storm all by themselves. I believe it were mainly the US and French tax payers who picked up the tab for Renault and GM.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by Redstorm » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:57 am

Giblet wrote:Actually, Ford was the only one of the 'big 3' who didn't receive a bailout. They restructured and did everything on their own from what I have read.

This is the North American bailout I am speaking of, which is the only one I was aware of.
OT It has just, in the past two days, came out that Ford did receive money. How disappointing as they were going to be the beneficiaries of my anger at GM. #-o

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by djos » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:08 am

Redstorm wrote:
Giblet wrote:Actually, Ford was the only one of the 'big 3' who didn't receive a bailout. They restructured and did everything on their own from what I have read.

This is the North American bailout I am speaking of, which is the only one I was aware of.
OT It has just, in the past two days, came out that Ford did receive money. How disappointing as they were going to be the beneficiaries of my anger at GM. #-o
That's not how im reading the situation, Ford Credit (and the other Auto Finance arms) used money from the Fed in place of money it would normally get thru other banking sources - it's not the same as Uncle Sam buying GM to save it from it's own incompetence

http://jalopnik.com/5704575/ford-bmw-to ... ment-money
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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by Redstorm » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:27 am

djos wrote:
Redstorm wrote:
Giblet wrote:Actually, Ford was the only one of the 'big 3' who didn't receive a bailout. They restructured and did everything on their own from what I have read.

This is the North American bailout I am speaking of, which is the only one I was aware of.
OT It has just, in the past two days, came out that Ford did receive money. How disappointing as they were going to be the beneficiaries of my anger at GM. #-o
That's not how im reading the situation, Ford Credit (and the other Auto Finance arms) used money from the Fed in place of money it would normally get thru other banking sources - it's not the same as Uncle Sam buying GM to save it from it's own incompetence

http://jalopnik.com/5704575/ford-bmw-to ... ment-money
That was the article I read. Correct it is not the same. Nothing comes for free, but enough of that. Back to the topic at hand, what sort of hampster wheel will go into the back of the cars in 2013???

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by WhiteBlue » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:59 pm

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/12/10/fia- ... for-2013/?
FIA finally confirms 1.6-litre engine for 2013
The FIA has finally formally confirmed that a new 1.6-litre engine formula is coming for 2013. Although it had been in the pipeline for some time, there had been attempts to postpone its introduction.

The four existing manufacturers – Cosworth, Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari – now have some 27 months until their new engines have to be on a grid for the first time. VW/Audi is also waiting on the sidelines.

The move is part of the FIA’s laudable attempt to make F1 greener and encourage sustainability, traits that will make it easier for car makers to justift investment in F1.

An FIA press release said: “The WMSC approved the introduction of a new specification engine from 2013, underlining the FIA’s commitment to improving sustainability and addressing the needs of the automotive industry. Following dialogue with the engine manufacturers and experts in this field, the power units will be four cylinders, 1.6 litre with high pressure gasoline injection up to 500 bar with a maximum of 12,000 rpm.

“The engines will deliver a 35% reduction in fuel consumption and will feature extensive energy management and energy recovery systems, while maintaining current levels of performance. In 2013, five engines will be permitted per driver, but each year after that the limit will be four.”
Full WMSC text


Only surprise it a higher DI injection pressure which will also allow higher rpms if the systems can be designed for such a spec.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by godlameroso » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:57 pm

Both BMW and Honda have a large stake in N.A. in fact N.A. is the biggest market for those two companies.

I think the move to 1.6l I4's is a good one, we may see more engine suppliers, as 1.6l I4's are common. Honda made a name for itself with the b16 series engines, there are turbo b16's on the stock crank that put out over 600whp and that's only revving to around 8,000 rpm. Imagine if a new modern engine with all the tricks in the book is designed to operate 4,000 rpm higher. I can't wait to see what new turbo technologies become available as a result of the new formula.

Not to mention we can see a huge variance to the drivability of the cars when all the regenerative systems are in full swing. You could use electric power in one part of the track to give you better response out of slow corners, but sacrifice top speed, or vice versa. Assuming one could harvest 2MJ of energy, that would mean about 80 extra hp for roughly 34 seconds. It would be very interesting if you could use more energy, albeit for a shorter interval say 200 extra hp for 9 seconds, it would definitely create some interesting strategies.

Do you go for full boost down the straights, use a more balanced approach, or put all the torque down low to compensate for turbo lag?
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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by Giblet » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:00 pm

Well there we have it. Enjoy the noise for the next two years kids, after that it's all honking and whooshing.

I hope they are lovable. As much as many forumers hate to hear it, the noise is part of the appeal to many of us.

The end of an era is at hand.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by gridwalker » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:10 pm

Anyone who has been watching this sport for any length of time will be used to eras ending : they come and go all the time!

Off of the top of my head, since I started watching in 1987, we have seen :
  • The end of the turbo era
    The end of the active era
    The end of the 3.5 litre era
    The start AND end of the refuelling era
    The end of the V12 era
    The end of the V10 era
    The end of the 3 litre era
    The end of the Wide Track era
    The start AND end of the grooved tyre era
I could go on, but I really can't be bothered.

My point is that we have heard similar comments each time there is a major change that affects the look or sound of the cars (I was particularly upset that I never saw a 3.5l V12 race). After 6 months, barely anybody bothers looking back!

I look forwards to a new generation of engines that will open up a whole new raft of technical solutions : this is what made me adore F1 in the first place!
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

Giblet
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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by Giblet » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:16 pm

Much like smoking, as much as it needed to go, I still miss it on occasion.

Even though going to these new motors is the 'right thing' to do, it will be hard to enjoy the sport sans noise, and unless you have been to an actual race, it can be hard to truly appreciate the volume of these things. Turbos and scavenging the exhaust will sound like muted trombones instead of heavily distorted guitars coming through a 100 watt Marshall head and 8 Celestions.

Yeah, I can still get into the jazzy groove of a muted trombone I guess, but I really gotta be in the mood.

Even though eras end, I still mist the V10 sound, the V8 never had that "OMG it's gonna fail" sound to it.

I'm sure these motors will have appeal in different ways, but I am one of the fans who likes the 'shock and awe' of the motors.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

gridwalker
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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by gridwalker » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:23 pm

Would you say that this engine lacked "shock and awe"?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNDrUIWp09g[/youtube]

It is only a 1.5 litre turbo, after all ...
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

Giblet
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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by Giblet » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:28 pm

Compared to a 3 liter v10 revving to 20,000, yes I would say it does.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

gridwalker
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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by gridwalker » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:36 pm

I'd disagree, but you are entitled to feel that way.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by flattyre » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:50 pm

I think this might be the new sound of Formula 1 in 2013. The BMW M12 in this video is a 1.5 litre 4 cylinder turbo, reaches 9500rpm, around 400bhp. So, if anything, a less powerful version of what we may see.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIo-aRFg6XE[/youtube]

You can't say it doesn't sound incredible when he floors it at 00:36. I think that this will sound a LOT better on TV than the 'whining' engines that we have today :) It might not sound quite as amazing in real life, but F1 is a TV sport anyway - I bet that we all watch 95%+ of the races collapsed on the sofa :P

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Re: What will come after the 2.4 V8?

Post by Giblet » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:36 pm

These new motors are going to have very little exhaust noise and intake noise, so regardless of the revs and configuration, they will be much much quieter. The extra exhaust scavenging and intake sealed by the turbo will make them far quieter.

Turbo engines are not as loud as NA engines, this is just a fact, and not an opinion :)

The subjective noise that is liked the most is merely that, subjective, and that is where opinion can differ.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute