Formula E

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
adrianjordan
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Re: Formula E

Post by adrianjordan » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:35 am

Completely agree that Fan Boost should be scrapped.

Imagine if Kimi swapped over to FE, for example, he'd probably get it most, if not all, races.

That Stoffel got it in his first race is evidence of that. I bet a lot of the people who voted for him were watching FE for the first time and knew him from F1 so voted for him. Funnily enough, Massa was also in the mix if I recall correctly...
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Big Tea
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Re: Formula E

Post by Big Tea » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:10 pm

adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:35 am
Completely agree that Fan Boost should be scrapped.

Imagine if Kimi swapped over to FE, for example, he'd probably get it most, if not all, races.

That Stoffel got it in his first race is evidence of that. I bet a lot of the people who voted for him were watching FE for the first time and knew him from F1 so voted for him. Funnily enough, Massa was also in the mix if I recall correctly...
That is assuming the scores actually come from 'real' fans not just those with the best 'kit' and knowledge
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

jjn9128
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Re: Formula E

Post by jjn9128 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:08 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:10 pm
adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:35 am
Completely agree that Fan Boost should be scrapped.

Imagine if Kimi swapped over to FE, for example, he'd probably get it most, if not all, races.

That Stoffel got it in his first race is evidence of that. I bet a lot of the people who voted for him were watching FE for the first time and knew him from F1 so voted for him. Funnily enough, Massa was also in the mix if I recall correctly...
That is assuming the scores actually come from 'real' fans not just those with the best 'kit' and knowledge
IIRC they changed the system in season 2(?) because of chinese interference for one of the drivers... either Ho Pin Tung or Ma Qing Hua.
#aerogandalf

strad
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Re: Formula E

Post by strad » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:30 am

Fan Boos is a farce. What is this Dancing With Stars? Why should a popularity contest determine who gets an advantage?
I can't see any reason for the after the last lap they get one extra lap??????
The attack mode is gained by driving offline thru a zone that even the drivers seem to have a hard time distinguishing and is only good for a few laps. I looked at the rules and a few laps is what they said. What constitutes a few laps? I'm confused as I'm sure many others are to.
I will grant that the qualifying is something akin to what I suggested for F1.
I'm sure someone here will explain it all. :wink:
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

marmer
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Re: Formula E

Post by marmer » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:02 am

strad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:30 am
Fan Boos is a farce. What is this Dancing With Stars? Why should a popularity contest determine who gets an advantage?
I can't see any reason for the after the last lap they get one extra lap??????
The attack mode is gained by driving offline thru a zone that even the drivers seem to have a hard time distinguishing and is only good for a few laps. I looked at the rules and a few laps is what they said. What constitutes a few laps? I'm confused as I'm sure many others are to.
I will grant that the qualifying is something akin to what I suggested for F1.
I'm sure someone here will explain it all. :wink:
the attack mode is 4 minutes long so the few laps depends on the amount of time it takes to complete a lap. the lap after the last lap is to give everyone a full final lap instead of just finishing once they cross the line after the time limit

jjn9128
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Re: Formula E

Post by jjn9128 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:24 am

strad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:30 am
Fan Boos is a farce. What is this Dancing With Stars? Why should a popularity contest determine who gets an advantage?
I can't see any reason for the after the last lap they get one extra lap??????
The attack mode is gained by driving offline thru a zone that even the drivers seem to have a hard time distinguishing and is only good for a few laps. I looked at the rules and a few laps is what they said. What constitutes a few laps? I'm confused as I'm sure many others are to.
I will grant that the qualifying is something akin to what I suggested for F1.
I'm sure someone here will explain it all. :wink:
I hated the idea of fan boost initially but in execution it has not been as bad as I feared. It just hasn't impacted enough races for me to spend any energy hating it.

Attack mode is another thing I was wary of ahead of the season, but I think it was a qualified success. Only Lopez failed to activate it - twice - everyone else seemed to manage. The exact time for attack mode is announced to teams 1hr before the race start so they can't optimize their race strategy ahead of time - also they can't communicate data from pits to factory (no F1/ NASA style mission control) so they have to work it all out at the track.

The timed race + 1 lap is the same as F1 if the race runs to 2 hours (assuming the lap limit isn't reached).
#aerogandalf

marmer
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Re: Formula E

Post by marmer » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:49 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:24 am
strad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:30 am
Fan Boos is a farce. What is this Dancing With Stars? Why should a popularity contest determine who gets an advantage?
I can't see any reason for the after the last lap they get one extra lap??????
The attack mode is gained by driving offline thru a zone that even the drivers seem to have a hard time distinguishing and is only good for a few laps. I looked at the rules and a few laps is what they said. What constitutes a few laps? I'm confused as I'm sure many others are to.
I will grant that the qualifying is something akin to what I suggested for F1.
I'm sure someone here will explain it all. :wink:
I hated the idea of fan boost initially but in execution it has not been as bad as I feared. It just hasn't impacted enough races for me to spend any energy hating it.

Attack mode is another thing I was wary of ahead of the season, but I think it was a qualified success. Only Lopez failed to activate it - twice - everyone else seemed to manage. The exact time for attack mode is announced to teams 1hr before the race start so they can't optimize their race strategy ahead of time - also they can't communicate data from pits to factory (no F1/ NASA style mission control) so they have to work it all out at the track.

The timed race + 1 lap is the same as F1 if the race runs to 2 hours (assuming the lap limit isn't reached).
watching lopez miss it twice in a row was just comical perhaps there is a visibility issue with the car. de costa stopped well past his line at the start and had to back up and a few others looked badly placed

jjn9128
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Re: Formula E

Post by jjn9128 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:23 pm

marmer wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:49 pm
watching lopez miss it twice in a row was just comical perhaps there is a visibility issue with the car. de costa stopped well past his line at the start and had to back up and a few others looked badly placed
The visibility is no worse than other open-wheel formulae, the driver's eye line isn't far above the top of the monocoque (around 20 to 30mm), but they should all be experienced with it by now, Paffett would have been the longest out of single seaters.

The issue with Lopez was that he tried to take the attack lane too fast and missed the first activation line. That he did it twice is just baffling. Not sure what the issue was, if he missed a briefing or just the heat of the moment got to him - as a driver he does seem a little error prone. Da Costa I think was lining up to the yellow wheel marker rather than his start box, he realised too late and ended at an angle as he tried to get into place.
#aerogandalf

Pingguest
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Re: Formula E

Post by Pingguest » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:30 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:20 pm
Pingguest wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:25 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:59 am


Power is currently capped at 250kW for qualifying and 200kW for normal race mode (225kW in attack mode). While I don't think the F1 levels of power are necessary it would be nice to either increase the maximum power or be able to race closer to the maximum for longer to limit some of the lift and coast. The battery can do a full race now, but energy density is increasing exponentially, so Gen 3 (presumably in another 4/5 years) will no doubt see a significant improvement in power output or a reduction in the battery pack size. The main issue for weight is the heat cycles from charging/discharging so much in a short time frame, so they need a fair amount of cooling.
Wouldn't it help if the battery wasn't standard?
It would, but then all the teams would use the budget developing batteries.
better if they develop different areas at first.
Why?

strad
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Re: Formula E

Post by strad » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:53 pm

the attack mode is 4 minutes long so the few laps depends on the amount of time it takes to complete a lap.
Thanks. That helps clear that up. Their home site wasn't clear.
the lap after the last lap is to give everyone a full final lap instead of just finishing once they cross the line after the time limit
That part still doesn't make sense. In other forms of racing when the leader crosses the finish line the race is over and I don't see the need for last second heroics. That could even lead to dangerous situations I would think..
Thanks for the clarification.
I did not save the race on my DVR after watching but I thought there were more drivers that had a problem getting into the Attack Mode box successfully.
Maybe I can find it on YouTube to re-watch and better educate myself. However I still don't understand the need for it to be offline and difficult to activate.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

ian_s
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Re: Formula E

Post by ian_s » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:06 pm

strad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:53 pm
the attack mode is 4 minutes long so the few laps depends on the amount of time it takes to complete a lap.
Thanks. That helps clear that up. Their home site wasn't clear.
the lap after the last lap is to give everyone a full final lap instead of just finishing once they cross the line after the time limit
That part still doesn't make sense. In other forms of racing when the leader crosses the finish line the race is over and I don't see the need for last second heroics. That could even lead to dangerous situations I would think..
Thanks for the clarification.
I did not save the race on my DVR after watching but I thought there were more drivers that had a problem getting into the Attack Mode box successfully.
Maybe I can find it on YouTube to re-watch and better educate myself. However I still don't understand the need for it to be offline and difficult to activate.
I cant explain the +1 lap thing, I don't see the need for it. maybe its a tribute to f1's 300km + 1 lap thing?

for the attack mode, the reason it's offline is that its meant for attacking, not defending. if you are defending you stick to the safest/fastest line, not going way offline and losing time and getting overtaken by the guy behind you.
if you are behind and a little bit faster than the guy in front, you can afford to go offline to get the 4 minutes of extra power that will easily make up the lost time and give you a chance to overtake.
I think the zone in this race was way too far off the racing line, it needed to be closer and wider to be effective. I also don't like the rule that says you have to use it twice, if you are in the lead and don't need to go offline, you shouldn't have to use it.

marmer
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Re: Formula E

Post by marmer » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:18 pm

ian_s wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:06 pm
strad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:53 pm
the attack mode is 4 minutes long so the few laps depends on the amount of time it takes to complete a lap.
Thanks. That helps clear that up. Their home site wasn't clear.
the lap after the last lap is to give everyone a full final lap instead of just finishing once they cross the line after the time limit
That part still doesn't make sense. In other forms of racing when the leader crosses the finish line the race is over and I don't see the need for last second heroics. That could even lead to dangerous situations I would think..
Thanks for the clarification.
I did not save the race on my DVR after watching but I thought there were more drivers that had a problem getting into the Attack Mode box successfully.
Maybe I can find it on YouTube to re-watch and better educate myself. However I still don't understand the need for it to be offline and difficult to activate.
I cant explain the +1 lap thing, I don't see the need for it. maybe its a tribute to f1's 300km + 1 lap thing?

for the attack mode, the reason it's offline is that its meant for attacking, not defending. if you are defending you stick to the safest/fastest line, not going way offline and losing time and getting overtaken by the guy behind you.
if you are behind and a little bit faster than the guy in front, you can afford to go offline to get the 4 minutes of extra power that will easily make up the lost time and give you a chance to overtake.
I think the zone in this race was way too far off the racing line, it needed to be closer and wider to be effective. I also don't like the rule that says you have to use it twice, if you are in the lead and don't need to go offline, you shouldn't have to use it.
I originally thought the attack zone was to far off line but actually I think they got it about right. Yes time was lost but I didn't realize just how long it lasted I assumed it would be for half a lap to a lap not 4 minutes although this could be different at the next race.

Back to Saudi it worked as you had more than enough extra power to make up the time lost.

I would go one step further and make it a permanent 5 minutes in every race and you go in the pit lane to activate it but you only get one shot of it.

Andres125sx
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Re: Formula E

Post by Andres125sx » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:30 am

strad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:53 pm
the lap after the last lap is to give everyone a full final lap instead of just finishing once they cross the line after the time limit
That part still doesn't make sense. In other forms of racing when the leader crosses the finish line the race is over and I don't see the need for last second heroics. That could even lead to dangerous situations I would think..
Dangerous situations? Some example please? :wtf:


When a race lenght is based on time instead of laps, it is usually this format X time + X laps. In MX for example it has always been like this, in the World Championship it is 40 minutes + 2 laps, at amateur level it is 30 minutes + 2 laps

I did race for several years in this format, and I´ve never seen, lived or considered the format is wrong or it may produce some dangerous situation. Actually I find your assertion quite comical if you ask me....

Then I noticed it´s you, Strad, the one criticizing every single aspect of FE, from the cars to broadcasting or race format, everything... :roll:

marmer
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Re: Formula E

Post by marmer » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:33 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:30 am
strad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:53 pm
the lap after the last lap is to give everyone a full final lap instead of just finishing once they cross the line after the time limit
That part still doesn't make sense. In other forms of racing when the leader crosses the finish line the race is over and I don't see the need for last second heroics. That could even lead to dangerous situations I would think..
Dangerous situations? Some example please? :wtf:


When a race lenght is based on time instead of laps, it is usually this format X time + X laps. In MX for example it has always been like this, in the World Championship it is 40 minutes + 2 laps, at amateur level it is 30 minutes + 2 laps

I did race for several years in this format, and I´ve never seen, lived or considered the format is wrong or it may produce some dangerous situation. Actually I find your assertion quite comical if you ask me....

Then I noticed it´s you, Strad, the one criticizing every single aspect of FE, from the cars to broadcasting or race format, everything... :roll:
Sure Strad will answer you but perhaps the dangerous situation could come cars overdriving to get another lap to challenge a car in front.

Also don't complain when people dig up some vaild points about the oddness of formula e. It's very different to other categories. It shows narrow-mindedness
What someone dead into formula e thinks is fine might be something that's putting millions off in the first place

marmer
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Re: Formula E

Post by marmer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:10 pm

Much better Fe race far better track and attack mode placement