IndyCar Series

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
lizardfolk
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by lizardfolk » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:44 am

BoomBoom wrote:
lizardfolk wrote:
BoomBoom wrote: Also the current DW12 is less spec than the mid 2000s IR03 when there was literally only one engine manufacturer for all teams, and the new Indy streets has been pretty fun to watch. Sao Paolo is literally one of the best street tracks I've ever seen it lends itself to a lot of passing especially on that massive straight.
IndyCar had 3 engine manufacturer and two chassis suplier beetween 2003 and 2005. Now we have a fugly and slow spec dallara and 2 manufacturer. The racing is less interesting because the calendar is full of crappy street wreckfests. IndyCar is dead for me.
First off... the 2003-2004 were an all oval schedule. Considering the IndyCar in 2003-2004 were pack racing with no skill and just floor it the entire race. That's way more boring than the streets anyday. Sorry, but I prefer to see racing with skill not just floor it with no lift off and just left for 2 hours.

Second of all, there's barely a difference between the G-Force and the Dallara. They are both the IR03. I'll only give you 3 engine manufacturers and that's literally it.

Third of all, you constantly call the DW12 "slow". How was the IR03 any faster on the roads? You do realize that the IR03 at Motegi road course is actually slower than Formula Nippon right? That IR03 was a travesty of a chassis. Atleast the DW12 is a much better performing car both on the ovals and on the road. Or did you not notice that the DW12 is actually faster at Indy as well...

LASTLY, prove to me that the racing is less interesting with the DW12 on street courses than the IR03 at street courses. I dare you. The IR03 at Sonoma, Long Beach, and Barber Motorsports Park was more of a parade march with the cars being so hard to race against each other than the DW12 has been for the past 2 seasons including this one. That is a fact. I dare you to show me an IR03 road course race, road or street, that's actually more interesting.

Also, since the merger, 2009-2011 were pretty spec as well. Need i remind you... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_IndyCar_Series_season)
WilliamsF1 wrote:Why didn't they just bring in the DP01 rather than the new car tender
Because the DP01 was an unsafe car. Justin Wilson broke his back while crashing at Long Beach. which is a horribly slow street circuit. If that car had a pile up on the ovals we would have multiple fatalities. Besides, the DW12 is almost as fast as the DP01 now and it just takes the team figuring out the car a little more because it'll be faster.

cossie
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by cossie » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:21 pm

WilliamsF1 wrote:Why didn't they just bring in the DP01 rather than the new car tender
FTG is the reason, they wanted to crush anything to do with CART champ car, notice Carl Haas, Gerald Forsythe and derrick walker are not running, the dw 12 is pig, st Pete they do not count it because it was run under CART, politics Thanks FTG , the series is a joke now , give me the Lola's , Reynard, Swift's and the 2.65 turbo with 1000bhp

wesley123
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by wesley123 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:43 pm

Really? If you seriously think the series are worse because of the DW12 than you are just ignorant. The DW12 might not be the greatest ever, but overall it is much, much better than the car they have used before.

Oh and also the DP01 was in no way suited for ovals.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Cuky
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Cuky » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:07 pm

BoomBoom wrote:Now we have a fugly and slow spec dallara
For car that first went under 67 seconds at Barber is really and understatement to say that it is slow. Dixon went 01:06.7750, while best time in last year with Dallara IR-05 car (2011. season) was also set by Dixon at 01:12.1388.

Also, I can't agree that DW12 is ugly. It sure looks different, but is much cleaner design that previous car and looks like more agile and drivable car too

BoomBoom
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by BoomBoom » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:13 pm

This year they use new tires which is 4-5 second faster than previous. And a lot of turns were repaved before this season in Barber.

The last year pole time was 1:10.4768.

The Dallara IR05's unnofficial track record was 1:09.4557. And the IR05 has steel brakes and -100 hp.

cossie
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by cossie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:51 am

lizardfolk wrote:
BoomBoom wrote:IndyCar is less and less interesting for me every year.
How is it possible that the DW12 is less interesting than that poor IR03 car? Honestly, it kinda sounds to me like you're going off of sentiments than actually what's been happening on track since 2012. Especially since I can't really remember many races where the IR03 actually induced passing on the road races of 2000s indy. Barber and Sonoma are good examples as they both livened up because of how much more agile the DW12 is compared to that horrible IR03. Whether those fenders are ugly is almost irrelevant compared to how much better the cars performed on track

Also the current DW12 is less spec than the mid 2000s IR03 when there was literally only one engine manufacturer for all teams, and the new Indy streets has been pretty fun to watch. Sao Paolo is literally one of the best street tracks I've ever seen it lends itself to a lot of passing especially on that massive straight.

So you'll forgive me if I don't believe you've actually bothered to watch IndyCar. "Boring drivers" are also a little bit of a silly statement. How does James Hinchcliffe, or Josef Newgarden have less personality than the young stars of the early 90s Indy?
How are them TV ratings and crowds coming around, i see more bare aluminum than fans and the TV ratings are nonexistent, the product sucks , most of the driver's are past their prime, and the new one are not that good, they all went to NASCAR

cossie
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by cossie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:57 am

wesley123 wrote:Really? If you seriously think the series are worse because of the DW12 than you are just ignorant. The DW12 might not be the greatest ever, but overall it is much, much better than the car they have used before.

Oh and also the DP01 was in no way suited for ovals.

oh that was the biggest lie IMS and tony George put out , the DP01 was oval ready and crash tested, where did you pick up that info at track forum , yeah they have a great record of integrity, a lot were paid to spread those rumors during the split. Don;t make up ---, get the damn facts straight. Panoz had the oval package ready to go

cossie
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by cossie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:02 am

Here's FACTS


The new Panoz makes around 5,500 pounds of downforce at 200 mph with the underwing accounting for nearly fifty percent of the downforce. The focus on increasing the proportion of downforce produced by the underbody is the key component in trying to improve the raceability of the DP01 compared to recent Champ Cars.

"It seems to be dominated by the dissolving shape and the low engine cover which are all products of the turbo installation and not requiring any cold air intake located high up but something that is more purposefully low. We don't have to ram air into the Cosworth engine."

Added Marshall: "We've got no restrictions on the entrances and exits and with vortex generating devices. We were able to spend a lot of time in making the best underwing possible and generate most of the downforce on the underwing."

Marshall and his design team are proud that the DP01 has exceeded the FIA's and Champ Car's crash test requirements.

"We subjected the car to a number of different crash tests," he said. "Some of them are through static loading, some are through fairly abstract experimentation and some are dynamic crash tests. We've subjected the roll hoop on this car to a twelve-ton load, which is about five or six full-size passenger cars sitting on top of a purely carbon fiber structure. Other areas are poked and squeezed and prodded and the test car comes out of it looking a little second-hand and dented and dinged, but all within the standards set by Champ Car.

"The frontal crash test is always the most impressive of these tests to watch. We run the car into a very unyielding concrete/steel wall at 12 meters per second and the car weighing in at 800 pounds. So it's got a fair amount of momentum to absorb and it converts the energy of the crash into heat and noise by the splintering of the crash structure at the front of the car.

"Hopefully, we're not designing the car like we did in the IRL to do just one job aimed at a single circuit. We're designing it to be adaptable to a lot of different situations, different drivers and team engineer requirements."

cossie
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by cossie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:04 am

More FACTS

hamp Car employee Scot Elkins, who oversaw the design of the Panoz Champ Car, writes, Dear AutoRacing1.com, As you well know, I rarely speak about rumors and whatnot, but today's posting by D.B. Cooper requires a bit of a reply, and since I only have 39 days as a Champ Car World Series (CCWS) employee left, I thought "what the hell."

I cannot fathom where the urban legend that the DP01 is not a viable oval chassis began? The fact is both the DP01 and the 016 Atlantic chassis incorporated the most recent safety features that all modern monocoque chassis require. There is no "oval spec" vs. "road course spec" in regards to the crash test specifications. It simply does not exist. All modern monocoques are built to the same standard, and that standard is typically the FIA crash testing specifications for F1 and F3. To give complete disclosure, the DP01 was built and crash tested to a combination of IRL, F1, and existing Champ Car test specifications, in order to obtain the safest car relative to the most current established regulations. There are differing opinions as to whether a low or high nose configuration is better or worse for running over crash debris on ovals, but these are only opinions and no data supports either configuration. So anyone that states that the safety levels of the DP01 or the 016 are not suitable for ovals, is making a very uneducated statement.

cossie
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by cossie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:18 am

so most of all your post were a pack of misinformation and out right lies. all you had to do was GOOGLE and you would have found the truth, The DP01 broke the track record and Laguna Seca in 2007, beating the time of the toyota F1 2006 , back breaker , 2 broken back s in 1 yr compared to and BTW i just looked up Justin Wilson's back injury it occurred in the IRL in 2011 not in champ car or the dp01, hhere's a look at his offical bio

http://www.openwheelworld.net/us/drivers/14/J.Wilson/

also a link number of IRL injuries vs Champcar/CART injuries

http://www.autoracing1.com/article.asp?id=3101

BoomBoom
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by BoomBoom » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:24 am

The fact is the chimp car guys lied about everything to sell that crapwagon.

Paul Tracy and many other drivers and many expert said the car is dangerous on road and streets and not able to run on ovals. I believe them.

wesley123
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by wesley123 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:32 pm

cossie wrote:
wesley123 wrote:Really? If you seriously think the series are worse because of the DW12 than you are just ignorant. The DW12 might not be the greatest ever, but overall it is much, much better than the car they have used before.

Oh and also the DP01 was in no way suited for ovals.

oh that was the biggest lie IMS and tony George put out , the DP01 was oval ready and crash tested, where did you pick up that info at track forum , yeah they have a great record of integrity, a lot were paid to spread those rumors during the split. Don;t make up ---, get the damn facts straight. Panoz had the oval package ready to go
I never heard anything about the DP01 having an oval ready package, guess i was on the wrong in that.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

BoomBoom
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by BoomBoom » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:30 pm

The Panoz made a dp01/gf05 mock-up in 2008, because the dp01 originally not had oval package.
But it was just an wind tunnel modell, which spent a few minutes in a wind tunnel. Nothing serious. The biggest problem was other than the car was dangerous on road and street circuits, not have the crash test to run on ovals.

Image

BoomBoom
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by BoomBoom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:58 pm

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... ong-beach/

Maybe next year we will get two (hopefully less ugly) spec car instead of current one. If they look something like this, I will be happier:
Image

lizardfolk
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by lizardfolk » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:17 am

2013 Long Beach Race:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XP835P-J3A[/youtube]
BoomBoom wrote:The fact is the chimp car guys lied about everything to sell that crapwagon.

Paul Tracy and many other drivers and many expert said the car is dangerous on road and streets and not able to run on ovals. I believe them.
I agree and Tracy is definitely not a fan of the IRL so when he says something against the ChampCar guys I tend to believe him. The DP01 was dangerous on the road courses enough already. It wasn't a great race car.
cossie wrote: How are them TV ratings and crowds coming around, i see more bare aluminum than fans and the TV ratings are nonexistent, the product sucks , most of the driver's are past their prime, and the new one are not that good, they all went to NASCAR
Ummm... crowds are pretty decent for a non-NASCAR series btw. 70k at Baltimore last year. Yeah... I see crowds. What were you watching? 2007 IRL? lol

Also the new ones are not that good? Vautier, Hinchcliffe, Newgarden, Rahal, and Simona? You know what? You should probably stop trying to put down IndyCar when you haven't been watching the past 2 seasons. Your ignorance is showing heavily.

I also don't care if Will Power or Sebastien Bourdais are "past their prime" they can seriously wheel a race car as their races in V8 Supercar have shown and if you think the V8 Supercar grid is untalented then you are the biggest idiot in the world.
BoomBoom wrote:http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... ong-beach/

Maybe next year we will get two (hopefully less ugly) spec car instead of current one. If they look something like this, I will be happier:
http://oi49.tinypic.com/mm3psj.jpg
I kinda wish this was the current IndyCar on road courses instead of the DW12. The DW12 looks pretty cool on ovals but the road course spec is just down right ugly. I'd like to see more aero packages