2018/2019 WEC

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strad
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by strad » Sat May 05, 2018 10:22 pm

Congrats to the whole Toyota team and of course Alonso in particular.
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Sevach
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by Sevach » Sun May 06, 2018 8:19 am

I'll sing a different tune and say that looked pathetic, with Toyota making a clear team call to ensure Alonso wins.
All that after the other car started a lap down and with Alonso being the slowest driver by quite a huge margin.

ALO_Power
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by ALO_Power » Sun May 06, 2018 8:56 am

Sevach wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:19 am
I'll sing a different tune and say that looked pathetic, with Toyota making a clear team call to ensure Alonso wins.
All that after the other car started a lap down and with Alonso being the slowest driver by quite a huge margin.
It would be nice to watch closer before jumping to such (wishful) conclusions. Toyota (being the only Hybrid car) is the quickest one (by much) so all the #7 had to do was to climb up to P2 as quickly as possible (which is easy being a Toyota and a 6 hour race...) and then wait for mess and safety cars (which came). So with all of those safety cars, the seat belt mistake with the other japanese driver that costed 1 whole extra stop and the japanese driver's spin and all of those safety cars over 6 hours it was a fact that the gap would close! Even if Alonso's car started P2 he would be just behind #7's tail with all of those safety cars alone. As for Conway closing the gap, it was obvious that he was going with a way more aggressive strategy burning more fuel. When Conway boxed, Alonso boxed too after it but the gap opened up, obviously Conway put more fuel in while Alonso was conserving to the end and he managed it quite well with the traffic and everything being a totally different car (and category), different team, 1st time out and also missed the prolog. So, check closer before saying that they just handed the win to him. The only thing I'd want is Porsche so we have some more competition on the top but fighting with the experienced team-mates is also fun.

Sevach
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by Sevach » Sun May 06, 2018 9:42 am

ALO_Power wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:56 am
Sevach wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:19 am
I'll sing a different tune and say that looked pathetic, with Toyota making a clear team call to ensure Alonso wins.
All that after the other car started a lap down and with Alonso being the slowest driver by quite a huge margin.
It would be nice to watch closer before jumping to such (wishful) conclusions. Toyota (being the only Hybrid car) is the quickest one (by much) so all the #7 had to do was to climb up to P2 as quickly as possible (which is easy being a Toyota and a 6 hour race...) and then wait for mess and safety cars (which came). So with all of those safety cars, the seat belt mistake with the other japanese driver that costed 1 whole extra stop and the japanese driver's spin and all of those safety cars over 6 hours it was a fact that the gap would close! Even if Alonso's car started P2 he would be just behind #7's tail with all of those safety cars alone. As for Conway closing the gap, it was obvious that he was going with a way more aggressive strategy burning more fuel. When Conway boxed, Alonso boxed too after it but the gap opened up, obviously Conway put more fuel in while Alonso was conserving to the end and he managed it quite well with the traffic and everything being a totally different car (and category), different team, 1st time out and also missed the prolog. So, check closer before saying that they just handed the win to him. The only thing I'd want is Porsche so we have some more competition on the top but fighting with the experienced team-mates is also fun.
I did watch the race and i know what i saw.

Alonso had a gap after the final SC(which he lost) and again after the pit stop, car #7 was faster all race.
Conway caught up to Alonso again with 20 minutes to go and immediately backed off, clear team orders.
Alonso was the slowest driver by quite a huge margin and "administrated" against a sister car who was told to back away.

Totally manufactured race, but if that makes you happy whatever.

bosyber
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by bosyber » Sun May 06, 2018 10:03 am

I wasn't able to see all of the race, but I tend to think racing drivers aren't so easy to steer with team orders; regardless, racefans.net/ confirms something I got from my Twitter follow of the end of the race:
Alonso also had to contend with a loss of hybrid boost and rising gearbox temperatures during his final stint in the car.
which shows your view is too negative of Alonso at least, and in my opinion too cynical in general,as lower fuel stints by Conway could easily explain his progress. But, I'll keep an open mind.

Sevach
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by Sevach » Sun May 06, 2018 10:14 am

bosyber wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:03 am
I wasn't able to see all of the race, but I tend to think racing drivers aren't so easy to steer with team orders; regardless, racefans.net/ confirms something I got from my Twitter follow of the end of the race:
Alonso also had to contend with a loss of hybrid boost and rising gearbox temperatures during his final stint in the car.
which shows your view is too negative of Alonso at least, and in my opinion too cynical in general,as lower fuel stints by Conway could easily explain his progress. But, I'll keep an open mind.
Oh full cynical, that was a win manufactured by the way of team orders and the faster car didn't win, not a fan of that.
Given that Alonso's car had difficulties near the end Conway should've been all over him don't you think?

Toyota needs to work their reliability for the 24h lest they embarass themselves again.

bosyber
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by bosyber » Sun May 06, 2018 10:20 am

Fair enough. Maybe I am more willing to allow it in endurance racing, and Toyota especially, because they have had such trouble making it to the end in the last few years, reliability over a long race still takes real effort.

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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by hollus » Sun May 06, 2018 10:29 am

@Sevach:

Think of how car #7 unlapped itself from car #8. That was team orders too.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

Sevach
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by Sevach » Sun May 06, 2018 10:44 am

hollus wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:29 am
@Sevach:

Think of how car #7 unlapped itself from car #8. That was team orders too.
And your point is that this is all a big manufactured show without any real racing?

Still that car came from behind and caught the #8 seemed natural at that stage(kept making progress too) not to hurt the sister car race.

There's a difference when say Bottas lets Hamilton through mid race because they are on different strategies and if he's told to hold station at the end.

ALO_Power
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by ALO_Power » Sun May 06, 2018 12:43 pm

bosyber wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:03 am
I wasn't able to see all of the race, but I tend to think racing drivers aren't so easy to steer with team orders; regardless, racefans.net/ confirms something I got from my Twitter follow of the end of the race:
Alonso also had to contend with a loss of hybrid boost and rising gearbox temperatures during his final stint in the car.
which shows your view is too negative of Alonso at least, and in my opinion too cynical in general,as lower fuel stints by Conway could easily explain his progress. But, I'll keep an open mind.
Let it go mate. It's also very fun to see that Alonso's haters spent 6 hours to watch a race he did in another category (that other f1 drivers of his class wouldn't even dare to) only to make up stories so they can bash him after his victory. Imagine what we will see if McLaren gets competitive in F1 :lol: :lol: :lol: I guess people would say that the severe damage he had in Baku made the car faster that's why he recovered and even smashed Vandoorne with an undamaged car :lol: :lol: :lol:

DiogoBrand
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by DiogoBrand » Sun May 06, 2018 1:30 pm

The thing is: This championship was always going to be bullshit with Toyota racing against nobody but themselves. If they had already won Le Mans there would be no reason for them to even continue with endurance racing.

So even if Alonso does win Le Mans (and bear in mind I'm a huge Alonso fan) it's probably going to be the hollowest of Le Mans victories. Does that mean he's a bad driver? Absolutely not, he's possibly the best in the whole WEC field, but still, winning a 24 hour race when you're easily able to lap every car but your own sister car is always gonna be a bullshit win (if it happens).

So it's a good thing that Alonso is able to win Le Mans, but so sad that if he does win, it definitely won't be a win as big as he (in my opinion) deserves.

ALO_Power
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by ALO_Power » Sun May 06, 2018 2:07 pm

DiogoBrand wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:30 pm
The thing is: This championship was always going to be bullshit with Toyota racing against nobody but themselves. If they had already won Le Mans there would be no reason for them to even continue with endurance racing.

So even if Alonso does win Le Mans (and bear in mind I'm a huge Alonso fan) it's probably going to be the hollowest of Le Mans victories. Does that mean he's a bad driver? Absolutely not, he's possibly the best in the whole WEC field, but still, winning a 24 hour race when you're easily able to lap every car but your own sister car is always gonna be a bullshit win (if it happens).

So it's a good thing that Alonso is able to win Le Mans, but so sad that if he does win, it definitely won't be a win as big as he (in my opinion) deserves.
That's true, the level of competition always gives weight to a victory but it happens. Let's not forget that this was the same in F1 in 2013 (at least 2nd half of it), 2014, 2015 and 2016, from the recent years. Not another category but the result was the same.

TAG
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by TAG » Sun May 06, 2018 2:40 pm

Congratulations on the victory! Those Porsche and Audi cars are very competitive. Alonso must have had a hell of a time getting by them in order to get Toyota the victory. :P
Countdown to 91: 10 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Andres125sx
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by Andres125sx » Sun May 06, 2018 3:18 pm

Reading some comments looks like it was Alonso fault that Porsche or Audi were not racing in Spa :lol: :lol:



About team orders.... what did you expect? A full battle between two Toyotas? Are you serious? That´s the only way Toyota may have lost the race if they crash each other, and considering Toyota problems in the past it would be utterly stupid if they would have make it possible #-o

This, as in F1, is a TEAM competition, Toyota doesn´t care if they win with #7 or #8, once #7 had to start from the pitlane it was obvious the race would be a formality.

Not sure what were you expecting for the race, car #8 was slower because they were leading the race and didn´t need to push at all. It´s called race managment, wich is very important on any category, but on a 6 hours race it´s crucial :wink:
Last edited by Andres125sx on Sun May 06, 2018 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Andres125sx
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Re: 2018/2019 WEC

Post by Andres125sx » Sun May 06, 2018 3:24 pm

DiogoBrand wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:30 pm
The thing is: This championship was always going to be bullshit with Toyota racing against nobody but themselves. If they had already won Le Mans there would be no reason for them to even continue with endurance racing.

So even if Alonso does win Le Mans (and bear in mind I'm a huge Alonso fan) it's probably going to be the hollowest of Le Mans victories. Does that mean he's a bad driver? Absolutely not, he's possibly the best in the whole WEC field, but still, winning a 24 hour race when you're easily able to lap every car but your own sister car is always gonna be a bullshit win (if it happens).

So it's a good thing that Alonso is able to win Le Mans, but so sad that if he does win, it definitely won't be a win as big as he (in my opinion) deserves.
Completely agree on that, but looking at it from a different perspective, that´s the same as saying Vettel or Hamilton titles are the hollowest titles in F1 because they didn´t have any real competition apart from their team mates.... and Hamilton lost one btw and Vettel almost lost two with an inferior rival car :P


But I´d have enjoyed a race with real competition much more, that´s obvious, as well as Alonso himself, he looked more happy after his 5th in Melbourne than he was after his victoy in Spa