2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

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J.A.W.
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2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by J.A.W. » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:29 am

Gets underway tonight in Qatar,
& though last year's Champ - M.M. - has been strong on his Honda in pre-season tests, on pole.. is.. Zarco!
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

johnny comelately
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by johnny comelately » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:54 am

The interesting fact here is that yes now for Losail but also last year the semi works team was outdoing Yamaha factory team.
I cannot imagine Tech3 not giving set up info to the factory.
Kudos to Johann Zarco, stellar effort.

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by Andres125sx » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 pm

I´ve heard or read difference between Tech3 and official Yamaha bikes is almost nothing, does anyone know what are the real differences?

Great job by Zarco anycase =D>

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by johnny comelately » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:14 pm

Riders :wink:

Silent Storm
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by Silent Storm » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:07 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 pm
I´ve heard or read difference between Tech3 and official Yamaha bikes is almost nothing, does anyone know what are the real differences?

Great job by Zarco anycase =D>
I thought Tech3 was using 2016 Yamaha M1 chassis, It can be that Official Yamaha team have gone backwards, I've read that Zarco has adopted Lorenzo's riding style as it suits the 2016 chassis. So not only is he smoother but also carrying more speeds through the corners.
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.

johnny comelately
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by johnny comelately » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:11 pm

Silent Storm wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:07 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 pm
I´ve heard or read difference between Tech3 and official Yamaha bikes is almost nothing, does anyone know what are the real differences?

Great job by Zarco anycase =D>
I thought Tech3 was using 2016 Yamaha M1 chassis, It can be that Official Yamaha team have gone backwards, I've read that Zarco has adopted Lorenzo's riding style as it suits the 2016 chassis. So not only is he smoother but also carrying more speeds through the corners.
Possibly a 2015 and with a good explanation check this interview out with Freddie Spencer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZhxjc071JA

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by johnny comelately » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:19 pm

Regarding that interview, one thing it does explain well is the opportunity and possibility for riders to 'ride around' problems, something that is a difference or an impossibility in F1.
Zarco has shown that in spades, along with Folger, who unfortunately is sick this year.
Marquez is someone who did do the same but now a lot less as the engineers reign him in sadly.

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by johnny comelately » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:33 pm

It brings up the old question, (in races) : in the troglodyte years Cars were 80% car and 20% driver with bikes being the opposite, what are the percentages now? Cars = 90% car 10% driver; Bikes 40% bike and 60% rider

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by NathanOlder » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:39 pm

The Tech3 bike in the past has been a few races behind the factory bike in terms of updates. But they have never been the same as the factory bike. This is the main reason Tech3 are leaving Yamaha after 2018 after being together since the 90's.

As for Zarco being on pole, its just down to Mav not being in a good place right now and the GOAT hasn't been the best qualifyer for a long time now.

Honda will get Zarco for 2019 to replace Dani, who like Kimi in F1 should have been packing a few years ago.

I always have a bet on the lower classes for the championship, this year in Moto3 I have J.Martin and in Moto2 I have F.Bangaia and M.Oliveira as I wanted a rider on each of the top Chassis.
GoLandoGo
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by NathanOlder » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:43 pm

johnny comelately wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:33 pm
It brings up the old question, (in races) : in the troglodyte years Cars were 80% car and 20% driver with bikes being the opposite, what are the percentages now? Cars = 90% car 10% driver; Bikes 40% bike and 60% rider
What I find odd in recent years is riders using 2016 chassis with a 2017 swingarm and 2018 forks. How do these top manufacturers not progress every year. Imagine Mercedes using 2017 suspension and 2016 aero on the 2018 chassis. Its insane to think that would happen in F1, but it happens all the time in motogp.
So yes the riders have a larger impact than drivers in f1, but when you see the mixture of chassis, swingarms ect it helps on certain tracks for different pecking orders when teams/riders make the wrong choices
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by GPR-A » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:18 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:43 pm
johnny comelately wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:33 pm
It brings up the old question, (in races) : in the troglodyte years Cars were 80% car and 20% driver with bikes being the opposite, what are the percentages now? Cars = 90% car 10% driver; Bikes 40% bike and 60% rider
What I find odd in recent years is riders using 2016 chassis with a 2017 swingarm and 2018 forks. How do these top manufacturers not progress every year. Imagine Mercedes using 2017 suspension and 2016 aero on the 2018 chassis. Its insane to think that would happen in F1, but it happens all the time in motogp.
So yes the riders have a larger impact than drivers in f1, but when you see the mixture of chassis, swingarms ect it helps on certain tracks for different pecking orders when teams/riders make the wrong choices
If I remember correctly, the same happened to MM in 2015. He struggled early in the season and then reverted to 2014 chassis and from there on, it suited him better.

Rossi was open in advising Zarco to reject the Yamaha 2017 chassis, if that was offered to Tech3 for 2018. Hence, Tech3 is persisting with 2016 chassis.

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by johnny comelately » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:46 pm

Pure excitement in Losail, Dovi on the Audi affected Duke from the man who you don't want at arms length on the last lap Marquez from Mr solid Rossi.
Hope Liberty were watching...oh and there were grid girls, good lord

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MotoGP 2018

Post by etusch » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:10 pm

Unfortunately I couldn't watch first race of the season. It looks like it was a great race with a great finish again.
1 4 Andrea Dovizioso Ducati 42'34.654
2 93 Marc Marquez Honda 0.027
3 46 Valentino Rossi Yamaha 0.797
4 35 Cal Crutchlow Honda 2.881
5 9 Danilo Petrucci Ducati 3.821
6 25 Maverick Vinales Yamaha 3.888
7 26 Dani Pedrosa Honda 4.621
8 5 Johann Zarco Yamaha 7.112
9 29 Andrea Iannone Suzuki 12.957
10 43 Jack Miller Ducati 14.594

NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by NathanOlder » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:14 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:18 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:43 pm
johnny comelately wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:33 pm
It brings up the old question, (in races) : in the troglodyte years Cars were 80% car and 20% driver with bikes being the opposite, what are the percentages now? Cars = 90% car 10% driver; Bikes 40% bike and 60% rider
What I find odd in recent years is riders using 2016 chassis with a 2017 swingarm and 2018 forks. How do these top manufacturers not progress every year. Imagine Mercedes using 2017 suspension and 2016 aero on the 2018 chassis. Its insane to think that would happen in F1, but it happens all the time in motogp.
So yes the riders have a larger impact than drivers in f1, but when you see the mixture of chassis, swingarms ect it helps on certain tracks for different pecking orders when teams/riders make the wrong choices
If I remember correctly, the same happened to MM in 2015. He struggled early in the season and then reverted to 2014 chassis and from there on, it suited him better.

Rossi was open in advising Zarco to reject the Yamaha 2017 chassis, if that was offered to Tech3 for 2018. Hence, Tech3 is persisting with 2016 chassis.
yeah, so it shows the manufacturers are out of ideas ? have reached the maximum under the current rules ? Maybe they need to do something drastic with the rules, although the way it is, we had 7 different teams running 1-7 until Rins fell off, and of those 7 teams we had 4 different manufacturers (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki & Ducati) Just need Aprilia to get their arses in gear, and KTM to come good in a year or 2 and it would be epic.

All of the manufacturers will probably get within a couple of tenths of each other and then the rules will probably be mixed up and we will end up with 1 or 2 out front again. Thats what I expect to happen with the F1 engine rules, everyone (other than mercedes?) says we need a change in 2021, but in 2020 Ferrari Renault Honda will probably all just about catch up, and then we reset for 2021 and 1 team will end up out front!!

Back to bikes, another good race in the top class, Honda really need to ditch Dani. Get Cal on that bike next year, unless they manage to get Zarco. Also my championship bets both won the moto3 & moto2, so good start there too :)
GoLandoGo
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johnny comelately
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto G.P. World Championship.

Post by johnny comelately » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:07 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:14 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:18 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:43 pm


What I find odd in recent years is riders using 2016 chassis with a 2017 swingarm and 2018 forks. How do these top manufacturers not progress every year. Imagine Mercedes using 2017 suspension and 2016 aero on the 2018 chassis. Its insane to think that would happen in F1, but it happens all the time in motogp.
So yes the riders have a larger impact than drivers in f1, but when you see the mixture of chassis, swingarms ect it helps on certain tracks for different pecking orders when teams/riders make the wrong choices
If I remember correctly, the same happened to MM in 2015. He struggled early in the season and then reverted to 2014 chassis and from there on, it suited him better.

Rossi was open in advising Zarco to reject the Yamaha 2017 chassis, if that was offered to Tech3 for 2018. Hence, Tech3 is persisting with 2016 chassis.
yeah, so it shows the manufacturers are out of ideas ? have reached the maximum under the current rules ? Maybe they need to do something drastic with the rules, although the way it is, we had 7 different teams running 1-7 until Rins fell off, and of those 7 teams we had 4 different manufacturers (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki & Ducati) Just need Aprilia to get their arses in gear, and KTM to come good in a year or 2 and it would be epic.

All of the manufacturers will probably get within a couple of tenths of each other and then the rules will probably be mixed up and we will end up with 1 or 2 out front again. Thats what I expect to happen with the F1 engine rules, everyone (other than mercedes?) says we need a change in 2021, but in 2020 Ferrari Renault Honda will probably all just about catch up, and then we reset for 2021 and 1 team will end up out front!!

Back to bikes, another good race in the top class, Honda really need to ditch Dani. Get Cal on that bike next year, unless they manage to get Zarco. Also my championship bets both won the moto3 & moto2, so good start there too :)
Chassis are an incredibly complex area.
First thing is to forget most of what happens with cars.
As bikes get closer to their natural horizontal resting position and with the speed and acceleration characteristics involved there are an incredibly complex lot of matrices to work with or not, as shown by the number of teams and riders who get it right. The introduction of the control ECU has been a good thing getting rid of most collar bone crunching high sides; along with air bag leathers.
Tyre compounds and symmetric or not; carcass construction; tyre pressures; geometry and its interaction; bike’s centre of gravity anomaly; the big one – flex and it’s characteristics and where it happens; chatter either from tyres or suspension; suspension settings themselves : a whole world of springs and damping settings; swing arm; anti dive settings; all the gyro effects: wheels, chain, crankshaft, clutch; about the only common factor with cars is damper behaviour; then overlay that with all the electronics (one recent world champion said that it is impossible to ride one lap without the electronics on the 1WD 250hp rockets) and then another overlay of rider’s riding style and psyche. Probably the last overlay is the track and weather and those changing as bikes are very sensitive to those changes when leaned over like that.
So a particular frame is fairly immaterial when there are so many combinations and variables because it mainly comes down to feel and confidence and that comes differently from each rider as they are so individual with their response to all the above.

You may remember a few years ago Nicki Hayden’s team was even taking strips of carbon fibre to test days to glue on critical areas to effect flex characteristics.
Not so long ago in Germany in the off season Yamaha had 6 different chassis to try, six!

A significant point at Losail is Dovi did not run any aero.