2021 Aero Thread

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
User avatar
jjn9128
272
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:09 pm
The impact of a narrow rear wing without a beam wing, in hindsight, was also detrimental compared to the current thinking of trying to kick the vehicle's wake up as high as possible.
The narrow span wing had precisely the purpose of increasing wake upwash. The lower aspect ratio increasing tip vorticity as it does, which creates a greater upwash on the centreline of the car - also they had a beam until 2014.
#aerogandalf

User avatar
JordanMugen
33
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:04 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:09 pm
The impact of a narrow rear wing without a beam wing, in hindsight, was also detrimental compared to the current thinking of trying to kick the vehicle's wake up as high as possible.
The narrow span wing had precisely the purpose of increasing wake upwash. The lower aspect ratio increasing tip vorticity as it does, which creates a greater upwash on the centreline of the car - also they had a beam until 2014.
My bad. :oops:

User avatar
AMG.Tzan
29
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am
Location: Greece

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vide ... i/4539829/

So i was watching this video about the 2021 tires and Motorsport.com claims:
"A modified RS18 that has been developed to simulate the downforce levels that are expected for the 2021 rules"

The rear wing of this Renault seems to be from Spa or Monza! So they are anticipating about 2018 Monza levels of downforce?? How much slower will a Monza style wing make a car around Barcelona or Silverstone for example?

In general the rule makers are always talking about how much better the racing will be in 2021! But what about lap times? I am curious to see how much slower these will be than today...hopefully not slower than early 2017!!
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

User avatar
djos
131
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

The venturi tunnels in the floor will ensure overall down force levels are similar but without the side effects of big traditional wings.

Go watch some late 90's champ car off you wish to see how good I think it will be.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

User avatar
lucafo
1
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Hi, all!
A friend of mine told me that, back in 80s, he was on a pre season trainning at Jacarapagua (Brazil) and saw mechanics repairing a gear box in the middle of pitlane and other teams mechanics making fun of him.
There werent so much caution for secrets and hiding things and this todays paranoia...
I was wondering how to make part of it back again.
My suggestion would be teams to open their projects every two years or allow other teams mechanics to stay in others boxes.
A little bit off-topic, but thats what I would suggests for 2021.
What do you think about that?
Best regard to everyone.

User avatar
Morteza
2036
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
AMG.Tzan
29
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am
Location: Greece

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Ooooh God noo...not 6 seconds slower...2014 all over again! :oops:

But i think saying that 2021 tires were 3 secs slower than the 2019 tires is wrong since they were testing with 2021 numbers of downforce and as i saw they were using Monza style wings...maybe that's why they were so much slower??

Except for that, they have 1.5 years of development in front of them until 2021...so they will get better i believe!

Again, 2017 lap times will be ok for 2021 i believe! Let's see...
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

User avatar
mclaren111
180
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Image

Image


Love the Orange...

User avatar
mclaren111
180
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:47 pm
Ooooh God noo...not 6 seconds slower...2014 all over again! :oops:

But i think saying that 2021 tires were 3 secs slower than the 2019 tires is wrong since they were testing with 2021 numbers of downforce and as i saw they were using Monza style wings...maybe that's why they were so much slower??

Except for that, they have 1.5 years of development in front of them until 2021...so they will get better i believe!

Again, 2017 lap times will be ok for 2021 i believe! Let's see...

You won't even notice 6 seconds... Not live nor on TV...

The sound is still a huge problem... On TV they sound like lawnmowers...

User avatar
jjn9128
272
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:47 pm
Ooooh God noo...not 6 seconds slower...2014 all over again! :oops:

But i think saying that 2021 tires were 3 secs slower than the 2019 tires is wrong since they were testing with 2021 numbers of downforce and as i saw they were using Monza style wings...maybe that's why they were so much slower??

Except for that, they have 1.5 years of development in front of them until 2021...so they will get better i believe!

Again, 2017 lap times will be ok for 2021 i believe! Let's see...
I don't know where 6s is coming from... the article says a 60 point reduction in downforce. Each point is worth 0.025-0.03s, so that's only 1.8s from reduced downforce. I imagine total drag will be similar if not lower too (each point of drag is worth 0.06s). The FIA model isn't as good as what the teams with 100s of aerodynamicists will create. I doubt there will be a lap time increase at all, depending on the track there might be lap time improvements!!
#aerogandalf

User avatar
Cuky
62
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 pm
Location: Rab, Croatia

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:47 pm
Ooooh God noo...not 6 seconds slower...2014 all over again! :oops:

But i think saying that 2021 tires were 3 secs slower than the 2019 tires is wrong since they were testing with 2021 numbers of downforce and as i saw they were using Monza style wings...maybe that's why they were so much slower??

Except for that, they have 1.5 years of development in front of them until 2021...so they will get better i believe!

Again, 2017 lap times will be ok for 2021 i believe! Let's see...
They told us before the season started that this year's cars would be 1-2 seconds slower because of changes to the front and rear wings, yet we saw quite a few lap records fall this year.

User avatar
AMG.Tzan
29
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am
Location: Greece

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Cuky wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:12 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:47 pm
Ooooh God noo...not 6 seconds slower...2014 all over again! :oops:

But i think saying that 2021 tires were 3 secs slower than the 2019 tires is wrong since they were testing with 2021 numbers of downforce and as i saw they were using Monza style wings...maybe that's why they were so much slower??

Except for that, they have 1.5 years of development in front of them until 2021...so they will get better i believe!

Again, 2017 lap times will be ok for 2021 i believe! Let's see...
They told us before the season started that this year's cars would be 1-2 seconds slower because of changes to the front and rear wings, yet we saw quite a few lap records fall this year.
Yeah because they didn't take into account the teams' aero development and ideas...it was what they were anticipating from their own model! :wink:

With the 2021 rules it's different! Everyone says that with the 2021 rules they won't have any scope for development...the rules won't allow much in terms of design and pretty much all cars will be the same! So that makes their assumption that the cars will be 5-7 secs slower seem true! :?

For some reason i believe that the teams won't have any of it in the end and they won't sign the new rules! But hopefully even if that happens a good solution will be to use the 2021 car but with more freedom for development...still it will be much better for racing than today's cars! [-o<
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

User avatar
FW17
227
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Image


What is the point of having that beam wing? cant they just make the tunnel exit taller/longer?

Teams should also be allowed to decide the throat length so that they can change balance as they want

User avatar
jjn9128
272
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

FW17 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:29 pm
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... -floor.jpg


What is the point of having that beam wing? cant they just make the tunnel exit taller/longer?

Teams should also be allowed to decide the throat length so that they can change balance as they want
Look at the pressure under the beam wing. That has an influence all the way to the front of the floor. Balance basically these days is fixed by the COG rule to within +/-1% of the wheelbase. The COP and COG and inexorably linked. I think the floor will be defined by volume i.e. if it was upturned how much water would it hold, not the current you can have this bodywork in this volume as the rules currently describe.
#aerogandalf

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
6
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Details of the newest "lima" 12th iteration of the 2021 design.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revi ... s/4547117/


Larger cockpit, revised(mainly for aesthetics) front and rear wings.

Discuss