Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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The ancient Macchi M.C.72 racing seaplane had "flat tubular water radiators faired into the wings. The twin floats had three radiators on the outer surfaces, the forward radiator for water and the centre and rear radiators for oil cooling.[3] The float struts also had water radiators and another radiator was fitted during hot conditions under the fuselage running from cockpit to tail.[3]" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_M.C.72).
Do you know if any F1 team has ever tried to use the same or similar approach?
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:21 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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I watched a Gordon Murray video (there are 2 significant ones on YouTube) where he mentions using them. Only difference is he said his inspiration was the Supermarine aircraft used in the Schneider trophy races.

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Visit the real plane, and it siblings in the museo storico aeronavale. Really worthy trip, they have a mc.202 too.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:37 pm
Visit the real plane, and it siblings in the museo storico aeronavale. Really worthy trip, they have a mc.202 too.
I've already done.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Me too. Midweek Rome and on “shopping day” I took the train to the Lago di Bracciano. If you like planes this is a must see museum!
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Gordon Murray designed the Brabham BT46 with surface cooled radiators; it was less than successful. Seems it boiled its cooling water after just a few laps at Donington in the middle of winter and the idea was dropped. A good resource is 'Brabham, The Grand Prix Cars' by Alan Henry. Google 'Brabham BT46 surface cooling' for pictures.

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Rodak wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:54 pm
Gordon Murray designed the Brabham BT46 with surface cooled radiators; it was less than successful. Seems it boiled its cooling water after just a few laps at Donington in the middle of winter and the idea was dropped. A good resource is 'Brabham, The Grand Prix Cars' by Alan Henry. Google 'Brabham BT46 surface cooling' for pictures.
I didn't know that, but if I had to try that approach now I will put the surface radiators in the lowest part of the floor where the air speed is higher and there is a lot of available surface. Maybe at that time the lower side of the BT46 had venturi tunnels and curved surface radiators were not available, otherwise I do not understand why they have not used such surface too.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Xwang wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:40 pm
Rodak wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:54 pm
Gordon Murray designed the Brabham BT46 with surface cooled radiators; it was less than successful. Seems it boiled its cooling water after just a few laps at Donington in the middle of winter and the idea was dropped. A good resource is 'Brabham, The Grand Prix Cars' by Alan Henry. Google 'Brabham BT46 surface cooling' for pictures.
I didn't know that, but if I had to try that approach now I will put the surface radiators in the lowest part of the floor where the air speed is higher and there is a lot of available surface. Maybe at that time the lower side of the BT46 had venturi tunnels and curved surface radiators were not available, otherwise I do not understand why they have not used such surface too.
I doubt placing radiators under the car where they would be exposed to damage from rocks, curbs,, etc. would be very smart........

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Rodak wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:33 pm
Xwang wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:40 pm
Rodak wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:54 pm
Gordon Murray designed the Brabham BT46 with surface cooled radiators; it was less than successful. Seems it boiled its cooling water after just a few laps at Donington in the middle of winter and the idea was dropped. A good resource is 'Brabham, The Grand Prix Cars' by Alan Henry. Google 'Brabham BT46 surface cooling' for pictures.
I didn't know that, but if I had to try that approach now I will put the surface radiators in the lowest part of the floor where the air speed is higher and there is a lot of available surface. Maybe at that time the lower side of the BT46 had venturi tunnels and curved surface radiators were not available, otherwise I do not understand why they have not used such surface too.
I doubt placing radiators under the car where they would be exposed to damage from rocks, curbs,, etc. would be very smart........
Beh nowadays when we see a qualifying session red flagged only because there is some gravier and with the outer part of the floor 5 cms higher then the central one, I doubt a surface radiator would be at risk.
Moreover nothing is black or white so if such an arrangement gives a substantial aero benefit (and also a lower centre of mass) maybe it is better to have it even if you risk damages in case of a run outside the track (which is not the normal operative mode of a F1 cars)
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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The normal operating mode of F1 cars is with the plank scraping along the ground and the rest of the floor banging off every single kerb on the track.

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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PhillipM wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:39 pm
The normal operating mode of F1 cars is with the plank scraping along the ground and the rest of the floor banging off every single kerb on the track.
As far as I can see from TV and images, it does not seem that the rest of the floor bangs off every single kerb. Maybe I'm wrong but when it happens it typically means that something has gone wrong and they go back to the pit to check for damages anyway.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Surface radiators like Macchi M.C.72

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Xwang wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:47 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:39 pm
The normal operating mode of F1 cars is with the plank scraping along the ground and the rest of the floor banging off every single kerb on the track.
As far as I can see from TV and images, it does not seem that the rest of the floor bangs off every single kerb. Maybe I'm wrong but when it happens it typically means that something has gone wrong and they go back to the pit to check for damages anyway.
I guess we're not watching the same F1 then........ Besides the damage potential there would be weight and plumbing issues and the fact that it has been tried and was a failure even in winter conditions. I quote Gordon Murray from the Brabham book mentioned above:

'Not only that (speculating about what might happen at Rio in the middle of summer) but we found those dip-brazed panels expanded by about 3/16" when they heated up - so we stripped them all off and re-mounted them on a Teflon back panel, secured on either side by some 270 tiny bolts attached with a special pneumatic tool in order that they could side along very slightly as they expanded. There were all manner of production problems with the panels themselves....'