Pirelli 2014

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Cold Fussion
93
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 04:51

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

MOWOG wrote:Ah HA! A gauntlet has been flung! Well, OK. I'm up for a challenge. Who knows? I might even learn something. :o

I have been reading for the past year how the new turbo V-6's will have more torque than the outgoing NA V-8's and how the Pirelli tires for 2014 will need to be able to handle the increased torque.

But now it appears that there won't be any extra torque to handle because those clever folks who engineer Formula One cars will rearrange the gearing in their transmissions so torque at the wheels will be the same as before? Am I getting this right???

Let's see if I can state my case more clearly. Barring changes in the transmission, if the torque at the flywheel increases, torque where the rubber meets the road - literally and figuratively - will increase accordingly. Are you saying that is not a true statement?

If I am wrong, then so be it. The fact of the matter is, there is little to do where I am this time of year other than watching hockey, so some playful banter with folks here at F1T is a welcome relief! :mrgreen:
Power=Torque*angular velocity. If the rear tyres are spinning at the same speed, which they will be, and because the power of the 2014 cars will be at best similar to the current cars, and at worst, significantly lower, then the torque delivered to the wheels will be less than the current cars. What you read from journalists on tehcnical matters is more often than not, complete rubbish, 99% of them would probably believe you if you told them torque is energy. The only way to rationalize the journalists claim that we need bigger tyres because we have more torque is that there are potentially situations, out of slow corners for instance, where the current cars will be off the power band and producing far less power than their maximum, while the 2014 cars will more than likely always be in the power band, producing close to peak power, and in this case the 2014 cars may have more power and hence more torque being delivered to the wheels, therefore requiring wider tyres to cope.

User avatar
andylaurence
123
Joined: 19 Jul 2011, 15:35
Contact:

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

MOWOG wrote:Let's see if I can state my case more clearly. Barring changes in the transmission, if the torque at the flywheel increases, torque where the rubber meets the road - literally and figuratively - will increase accordingly. Are you saying that is not a true statement?
Actually, even using the same ratios, it might not be a true statement. Let's take our 600bhp V6 engine with 160bhp of ERS and compare it to our 750bhp V8 with 80bhp of KERS. They're both hooked up to the same gearbox, which is geared @18000rpm for 200mph in 7th (1.1:1), 173mph 6th (1.269:1), 161mph 5th (1.36:1), 147mph (1.5:1). At the flywheel, we've got 266lb-ft for the V6 and 222lb-ft for the V8. As expected there. At 150mph, the V6 is in 7th gear and 158 lb-ft is at the tyres. The V8 is still in 5th and there's 199 lb-ft at the tyres. Same gearbox.

User avatar
MOWOG
24
Joined: 07 Apr 2013, 15:46
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Contact:

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

I see my playful banter has produced some very useful information, which has been duly added to my knowledge base. Thanks to all who have shared their knowledge with me. Clearly, my technical competence rates a -2 while most everyone else here is an 11 or higher! :shock:
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.

Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

Lycoming wrote:
Jersey Tom wrote:With a different torque curve the duty cycle on the tires will be slightly different I'm sure, but I can't imagine dramatically so. I don't think the engine change will be testing the tires' durability.
Would all the electrical stuff have an effect? The torque delivery is certainly different from a conventional ICE. I guess it wouldn't be a huge effect, since it ends up being about the same power anyways, and if you don't use the electric motors in the traction limited regime it probably wouldn't matter much if at all.
I just think the bigger things impacting durability as far as the car is concerned, are speed and vertical load (and downstream a higher vertical loading allowing for higher lateral loads, etc).

(Though I'll admit I've seen torque rip tires apart quite violently before!)
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

User avatar
Kiril Varbanov
147
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 15:00
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia
Contact:

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

Pirelli has finally concluded its Formula 1 tyre supply contract with the FIA, meaning it will continue in the sport for the next three years: http://www.f1technical.net/news/19056
Last edited by Steven on 16 Jan 2014, 13:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Linked to our own page, is same PR

F1PuertoRico
0
Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 02:46

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

Sebastian Vettel....7 time World Champ.... :(

Huntresa
54
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

F1PuertoRico wrote:Sebastian Vettel....7 time World Champ.... :(
Why ? This year the tire will be rockhard.

stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Contact:

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

Meanwhile, at Pirelli...

"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

stefan_ wrote:Meanwhile, at Pirelli...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ruNvbxCMcc
all i concluded is pirelli's been busy with everything BUT F1 tyres, and various personel has been busy with all sorts
of tires that are in no way comparable to Formula 1, and when the 'big boss' paul hembery sees an old man having a problem,
instead of happily running towards the old man to give a helping hand, he first sighs out of irritation and frustration and pulls his 'tie' as if he'll corporately sort thins out......whilst the matter of fact, the cartwheel was broken at the suspension, so it wasn't a tire thing at all.

#-o #-o #-o #-o

pirelli. they're even failing at the most simple adverts. =D> =D> =D> #-o #-o :roll: :roll:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEeXBvWi0Y[/youtube]
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Contact:

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

The difference between the front and rear tyres for 2014.

Image
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

bonjon1979
30
Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

stefan_ wrote:The difference between the front and rear tyres for 2014.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Be-9P9aCUAA14mF.jpg:large
Is that significantly different from last year?

Blanchimont
214
Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:47

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

Dinosaur Paul talks about the 2014 tyres in the first minutes. Good to hear that marbles and degradation seem to be reduced quite a lot.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAYpDN7vrbw[/youtube]
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)

lebesset
7
Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

the teams asked pirelli to bring some of their 'winter' quick warm up hards to try ; anyone notice if they have been used in the first 4 days here ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

User avatar
RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

If you mean those special winter tyres without markings, then yes. They had them in Bahrain and Jerez.

stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Contact:

Re: Pirelli 2014

Post

"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Post Reply