2004 regulations re : rear wings

[-shr3d-]

hey all,

just read in an interview with Adrian Newey that Mclaren will start next year with the MP-18 because the only major change to the regulations (disregarding engines and possibly tyres) will be the rear wing.

Does anyone know what the proposed change is. best i go searching to find out.

[cava]

1 wing for the entire season, wasnt it?

[jimm]

The rule about the 2004 rear wing came in with all the other new rules over the winter.

please tell me if i am wrong but i think for 2004, the rear wing can only have two elements.

And i think something was said about that wing has to have the the downforce of a Imola wing and the drag of a spa wing?????????

That is one way that the FIA can try to slow the cars down

[Monstrobolaxa]

What I read.....was quite stange....well according to the portuguese version of Autosport.....FIA wants to implement a wing with Monza settings!!!!! STRANGE don't you think.....this would mean cars would be even faster on straights....but slower in corners....and spinnig all over the place!!!!

[-shr3d-]

sounds like similar thinking to 1998 where they reduced the width of the cars in the hope it would improve overtaking. it didnt really work but was worth a try i spose.

another way to try and reduce lap speeds. i dont think they worry too much bout a cars speed down the straight but it is conering speed where most big accidents happen.

[drspeed]

What I read.....was quite stange....well according to the portuguese version of Autosport.....FIA wants to implement a wing with Monza settings!!!!! STRANGE don't you think.....this would mean cars would be even faster on straights....but slower in corners....and spinnig all over the place!!!!

Logiically, if you want to win races, you'll have to adjust yourself to the car you have. If you think about FIA now trying to let non factory teams buy parts off those of the factory teams, for examply, front nose cones, rear wings, trannies etc, it is actually a logical step. But i dont think wings would make much of a difference in terms of costs. How much would lumps of carbonfibre for wings value to them if they make atleast 10 carbon monocoques a year!

IMO, instead of dumbing down drivers with standard parts and electronics, i think they should forget about them and set up a fixed weight limit and power output like the WRC.

900bhp, 19000RPM, 560kg, no launch control, and bloody no traction control. That would be my formula of racing, thank you.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Hummmm....a rear wing costs around 3000 to 5000 dollares.....if you take the "store wings" and if you buy 10 per driver.....well...I believe you'll be saving around 100 dollares a year......which is quite good.....with that money saved you can buy 75 titanium bolts!!!! WOW!|!!!!


Now seriously, i don't think the idea of the rear wing was to bring down costs....It's more an idea to bring back excitment to F1.....if (like I read) the rear wings are fixed and can't be ajusted (and have the downforce of Monza)....well........teams will have to come up with really good rear suspension and diffuser ideas or else.....no one will be able to keep the car on the track...,..for example in Monaco!!!!! hahaha

[drspeed]

To me a good rearwing set-up sounds cheaper than good suspension and underbodies.

[-shr3d-]

i think they might be trying to address both issues at the same time.
a fixed wing package will possibly bring more equality of performance in that area but how it relates to the rest of the car is unquantifyable... and will also prevent some teams from running a low drag setup in the hope of better straightline speed in hope of overtaking during the race.... for me in this respect a standard wing is a lose lose situation...
as for the cost saving, i think the potential of that is quite large given that the biggest cost in rear wing manufacture will be the time spent on cfd and wind tunnel testing which a standard wing will negate.
as ever it is a fine balance between cost cutting and dumbing down of the sport.

[akbar21881]

fixing the rear wing wont reduced the cost at all. rich teams like mclaren,toyota,ferrari and williams will invest like crazy in regaining the lost downforce. imagine they will have to radically redesign the rear difuser and sidepod to gain more downforce at the rear end. these two factors alone are enough to influence the change in suspension geometry,transmission size and hence, engine placement. change in sidepod design will influence the change in engine design and cooling system. change in rear design(for downforce) will raise the need to modify the front end aerodynamic as well to achieve balance.

combine these with the need of one-engine-perweekend will increase the cost evenmore.

F1 is not at all cheap. really it is a piranha club....

[-shr3d-]

hey akbar,

interesting points that you make and i do agree. I suppose in the end you will never stop the big teams spending money because any savings you make in one area they will spend more in another.
The only benefit would be to the smaller independent teams in that it would be an area where the are on a more level playing field.
But this would still negate the advantage that i pointed out in my previous post about running different wing angles although this doesnt seem to be as important as it used to be (ie tyrrell in Hockenheim 1994)

[NickT]

Just a thought, but wasn't the whole idea to reduce downforce and increase drag in one step to slow straight line and cornering speed?

If they had realy thought about it then a standard defuser design, like the flat panel in sport cars, combined with minimum cross sectional areas at different points along the length of the chassis, would have reduced the opertunity to find more downforce and spend money.

Personally I would also like to see a standard brake package to, that lengthens braking distances substancially and something that would allow cars to follow each other closely through the corners.

Please please bring back slip streaming, late braking and overtaking manoevers. After all isn't F1 a drivers championship?

[akbar21881]

I kinda agree with Nick T. I long to see the slipstreaming, late braking and breathtaking overtaking.

But I also believe that F1 should be at the top of the world in term of technology, for example, usage of aerospace material in monocoque and highy advance electronic systems, including the first-class aero effiency(low drag,high downforce). these factors,combined with the bravery of the best driver, should produce a very fast yet entertaining race. isn't F1 is all about speed? don't tell me that you didn't feel excited when seeing the car flat out through 130R at Suzuka, and crazily slipstreaming other cars on old hokenheim straight(barichello 2000), and 3-abrest overtaking (michael and hakkinen spa 2000). those kind of moment still exists in last few years and its it not the fault of regulation that those precious moment now rarely seen.

I believe that it is the manufactures fault that F1 become so boring esp last year. Rules should be stabilise to give chance for F1 teams to converge the design in the right way and then fight all the way then.

just think about the very fierce fight between late Ayrton Senna and Prost when they are not in the same team, can't remember 92 or 93 when mclaren was using ford engine. the race still exists eventhough the mclaren and williams are not in the same league. it is the driver that should spice up the things.

we do have the race-till-die driver's attitude in the form of Michael,Momtoya,Raikonen,Alonso and sometimes Barichello,Ralf and Coulthard. When their cars reached their peak of development, exciting combat will emerge, like this year.

If the regulation is changed again. it would take several years before the solution is found. until then, we will be entertained by a boring race. for example, the last time the rules was significantly changed was in 2001. ferrari was the first team to solve the lack of downforce problem. so they conquered 2 seasons with their advantage. only this year other teams have catch up. thats why this season, after so long, we managed to see ferrari being lap!!

but now, regulation will be changed again. who will get it right first? mclaren? williams? ferrari? and we will see the same thing repeating again and again........

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well....to say the truth....I agree with the last 3/4 threads.....and have nothing to add

[-shr3d-]

hey all,

i do agree with akbar but i also think that 2001 and 2002 was a combination of a settled Ferrari design team that was perfecting 5 years work and my long held fear (which came up from 94-97) of what was gonna happen when Schumi got hold of the best car in F1.
Fortunately in those previous years he wasnt and wasnt till 2001 that he did and sure enough the season was a whitewash.
Congratulations of Mclaren and Williams for lifting there level to take it to Ferrari this year.