How do i begin making a carbon fibre monocoque?

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sion_williams
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How do i begin making a carbon fibre monocoque?

Post by sion_williams » Thu May 04, 2006 5:33 pm

This seems to be highly guarded information on the internet and i cant find many useful books either. I am currently working at Formula Student level and would like to make a carbon fibre chassis for our next competition.

I have a copy of the chassis design in Ideas(CAD package) in a tubular steel model. I would now like to convert it (using same dimensions) to a carbon fibre chassis using carbon fibre with a aramid honeycomb centre as i understand this is what they use for competition. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if any of you can help or provide links to useful websites i would be most greatful!

[IMG:256:192]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/ ... sisCAD.jpg[/img]

NickT
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Post by NickT » Thu May 04, 2006 5:57 pm

Here you go everything you need to know, don't be put off by the title or its age, this book will help with your understanding of the whole process 8)

\:D/ "Race and Rally Car Source Book: The Guide to Building or Modifying a Competition Car" \:D/ by Allan Staniforth 8)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 72-5957546

As far as Formula Student goes there is extensive coverage in Race Tech although you will probably have to purchase the back issues but they are worth every penny 8) http://www.racetechmag.com/

Remember books arn't an expence they are an investment in your future.
Let me know if there is anything more specific you need and I will check my collection and other sources
NickT

Ciro Pabón
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Post by Ciro Pabón » Thu May 04, 2006 7:55 pm

You could try Deltronix's Worldwide Composites Search Engine. I would start at "Techniques. I have been able to get unexpensive surplus materials with these guys.

http://www.wwcomposites.com/

I have a book on composites for civil engineering that I got from RayPublishing at:

http://www.compositesworld.com/rp/design#autoguide

I have also used some material (again, for bridges, look around for autos) I've found at About.com. They have a page on "How To" for composites design and manufacturing.

http://composite.about.com/od/howto/

Hope this helps.
Ciro

NickT
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Post by NickT » Thu May 04, 2006 9:57 pm

Some excellent sites and info, thanks Ciro Pabón

I found this the other day and its already been very useful http://www.ifigure.com/index.html but you might need to install and activate Java
NickT

flynfrog
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Post by flynfrog » Fri May 05, 2006 12:03 am

http://www.opencortex.org/

you can see how some solar car teams construct there chassis here

i recomend learing catia and getting your hands on the composties addon for it

flynfrog
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Post by flynfrog » Fri May 05, 2006 12:12 am

http://www.opencortex.org/

you can see how some solar car teams construct there chassis here

i recomend learing catia and getting your hands on the composties addon for it

sion_williams
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Post by sion_williams » Fri May 05, 2006 1:43 am

thanks for all your help, i have been doing alot of research and found a book "a practical guide to composites" by multi-sport composites. It is a very good book wih respect to showing techniques on how to lay-up and build molds and so on, but it doesnt explain about this aramid honeycomb that is used in most chassis design. It gives a very basic look on things, for example how to make a cube out of carbon fibre. lets say its rather general about things

I guess the question im asking isnt really specific enough. Its actually the process im after. for example how do you make a single piece chassis, how would you begin designing it? how would you fit mounting brackets for suspension? do you incorporate the brackets or do you fix them via other means. do any of you have any pictures or tech designs of a tub?

heres all i can find:
Image

Sorry for being messy with my question its a very interesting subject for me and i like to learn about peoples experiences and opinions on how they would deal with it

NickT
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Post by NickT » Fri May 05, 2006 11:50 am

Seriously sion the "Race and Rally Car Source Book: The Guide to Building or Modifying a Competition Car" by Allan Staniforth covers all the principles very well in a practical way, including composite tubs.

I also remembered a Race Tech column that was excellent, The Practical Racer http://www.racetechmag.com/practicalrac ... asp?menu=4 Specifically the Pashley Project that covered exactly what you are talking about, following the design and build of a composite race car, including building a wooden mockup to check the design before cutting and bonding the expencive stuff.

Both of these guys are experienced builders and they don't just teach you how they also point out the pitfalls to, which would be invaluable in your situation.

Finally I know Race Car Engineering is also very good http://www.racecar-engineering.com but it wasn't one I read very often.
NickT

NickT
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Post by NickT » Fri May 05, 2006 12:13 pm

Another author to look at is CARROL SMITH he wrote some great books including "Engineer in your pocket" check out http://shop.racetechmag.com/products.asp?pid=26 although I am pretty sure you can get most of them cheaper on Amazon
NickT

sion_williams
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Post by sion_williams » Fri May 05, 2006 1:33 pm

NickT wrote:Seriously sion the "Race and Rally Car Source Book: The Guide to Building or Modifying a Competition Car" by Allan Staniforth covers all the principles very well in a practical way, including composite tubs.

I also remembered a Race Tech column that was excellent, The Practical Racer http://www.racetechmag.com/practicalrac ... asp?menu=4 Specifically the Pashley Project that covered exactly what you are talking about, following the design and build of a composite race car, including building a wooden mockup to check the design before cutting and bonding the expencive stuff.

Both of these guys are experienced builders and they don't just teach you how they also point out the pitfalls to, which would be invaluable in your situation.

Finally I know Race Car Engineering is also very good http://www.racecar-engineering.com but it wasn't one I read very often.
Sorry nick i kinda cut you off a little there. I have just been down the library and got this book, your right its very informative and i have got some good info from it. The monocoque he makes is sheet steel is it not? i am looking to use carbon-fibre kevlar epoxy with a honeycomb centre for added strength. From the way he makes his could the same be done with carbon fibre? he makes it in 3 pieces. if i made molds for these 3 pieces could i use the carbon fibre then adhere some honeycomb and then assemble the three pieces in the same way? I will try make some CAD drawings to explain what i mean.

flynfrog
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Post by flynfrog » Fri May 05, 2006 3:00 pm

sion_williams wrote:thanks for all your help, i have been doing alot of research and found a book "a practical guide to composites" by multi-sport composites. It is a very good book wih respect to showing techniques on how to lay-up and build molds and so on, but it doesnt explain about this aramid honeycomb that is used in most chassis design. It gives a very basic look on things, for example how to make a cube out of carbon fibre. lets say its rather general about things

I guess the question im asking isnt really specific enough. Its actually the process im after. for example how do you make a single piece chassis, how would you begin designing it? how would you fit mounting brackets for suspension? do you incorporate the brackets or do you fix them via other means. do any of you have any pictures or tech designs of a tub?

heres all i can find:
Image

Sorry for being messy with my question its a very interesting subject for me and i like to learn about peoples experiences and opinions on how they would deal with it
please read teh link i posted earlier it shows all of these the answers to all of these questions

your suspension mounts will need to be made out of metal and bolted and glued on to the chassis

if you have never worked with cabon before i dont suggest a chassis being teh first thing you make try starting with a body there are alot of hands on tricks you will learn just by laying it up

NickT
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Post by NickT » Fri May 05, 2006 3:15 pm

No worries mate :D

By the way its not steel, its preformed aluminum composite sandwich sheet he is using that is routed then folded and glued. He uses machined aluminum bulkheads for all the suspension mounts. I was toying with doing the same with a arimd/carbon composite sheet. Unfortunately never quite got it off the drawing board. :cry: but life is still good :D
NickT

sion_williams
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Post by sion_williams » Fri May 05, 2006 8:48 pm

There is a guy who went to my uni 2 years before myself and he actually managed to make one. He now works for United Airways and has offered his services to the team but i would not like to waste his time asking loads of questions. Im trying to get some kind of design together before approaching him. In his works he has facilities good enough for F1

kilcoo316
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Post by kilcoo316 » Fri May 05, 2006 8:56 pm

sion - its quite probable that the uni library would have back copies of Racetech - go ask in the library.


If they don't you could speak to the lecturer in charge and see if the uni would back order them.

sion_williams
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Post by sion_williams » Fri May 05, 2006 9:52 pm

To be honest were only a small institution and its very hard to find everyday books let alone magazines. Although i have visited the website i think i will get myself a subscription anyway. Do any of you recommend any back issues to order?