Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

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jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:22 pm

This. ^

Unfortunately there's too much politicking and self interest in F1 for any positive solution to come to fruition. The 2021 engine compromises are now showing Liberty what a vipers nest F1 really is, it's all lovey-lovey until they try to enact change which would upset the status quo, then Wolff, Abitebouel and Marchionne and co throw the all the toys out of their respective prams.
Jin.
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3jawchuck
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by 3jawchuck » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:32 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:52 pm
It seems to me that the desire for lots of overtaking is as a result of a lack of understanding of what F1 is. It's like trying to make all cricket matches in to T20 games. Test matches are a very different to T20, and no less enjoyable to those who love the game.
We got DRS because of this.

I remember Schumacher and Alonso battling (around Imola in the mid 00's comes straight to mind), thrilling stuff, forgot to breathe several times. I also remember watching several Indy and WEC races, lots of passes but not one of them made me sit on the edge of my seat with excitement. I really enjoy rally, not a pass in sight, but blow me do I get all excited about it. As you say, all enjoyable but on totally different levels.

strad
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by strad » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:15 pm

Overtaking should be possible, yes, but it shouldn't be easy. Trying to create lots of overtaking just risks removing the race craft and skill that a racing driver should, by definition, have.
.
Could not agree more. Too often I feel that people just want to see overtaking but don't seem to care so much about the race craft that it should take to pull off a quality pass.
I personally don't care about overtaking as much as the trying,, the side by side racing that may or may not result in a pass.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Webber2011
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Webber2011 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:28 am

Awesome topic, I've not read this thread before and have enjoyed it very much from start to finish :wink:
I really enjoy this side of the forum where there's no fanboy stuff, just somewhere I can learn.

I'm not very technically minded compared to most of you but I'm learning, and have always been very much a "visual" type of person when it comes to understanding theory.
Good images added to complex text help my muddled old brain a great deal :lol:

Unfortunately jjn9128 I can't see any of the images you've posted.
Not sure if your image host has deleted them or what ?
Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers people,
Simo'

roon
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by roon » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:51 pm

Seconded. I missed this thread first time around and also can't access the images.

Jejking
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Jejking » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:38 pm

This is massive, I dig the subject. Will respond soon!

jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Thu May 03, 2018 3:31 pm

Webber2011 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:28 am
Unfortunately jjn9128 I can't see any of the images you've posted.
Not sure if your image host has deleted them or what ?
Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers people,
Simo'
roon wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:51 pm
Seconded. I missed this thread first time around and also can't access the images.
Gosh, guys I'm so sorry. I have no idea how I missed this! For some reason I can't edit the original post to put the images back in but here is the original concept (CxS = 1.157, CzS=1.195, DF/D=1.03):
Image
As developed a bit (CxS = 1.164, CzS=3.138, DF/D=2.70):
Image
And some of the CFD plots:
Image
Image
Image
Image

I'm currently playing around with a concept based on a hybrid of the halo/aeroscreen/Indy screen - i.e. a reinforced screen like the aeroscreen, with constant curvature like the Indycar screen. Will post more CFD if I ever finish it (I'm using Onshape for the CAD and I'm really struggling with the surfacing - it's not doing what I want it to).
Image
Jin.
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Blaze1
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Blaze1 » Thu May 03, 2018 5:30 pm

Yes, I thought it was that one jj. My design is quite similar, albeit with more complex front & rear wings and underbody. The front wing in is also narrower, equal to the inside distance between the front wheels and doesn't have the foot-plate, just end-plates that extend backwards for front wheel wake and tyre squirt control. There is a splitter under the drivers legs like we see in contemporary F1, but no side-pod flick-ups ahead of the rear wheels.

jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Thu May 03, 2018 7:00 pm

Blaze1 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:30 pm
Yes, I thought it was that one jj. My design is quite similar, albeit with more complex front & rear wings and underbody. The front wing in is also narrower, equal to the inside distance between the front wheels and doesn't have the foot-plate, just end-plates that extend backwards for front wheel wake and tyre squirt control. There is a splitter under the drivers legs like we see in contemporary F1, but no side-pod flick-ups ahead of the rear wheels.
Heheh yeah my new car will also have a splitter, but now it has a flat floor with no step plane - I've pinched the LMP plank to enforce a minimum ground clearance of 25mm - also being domed it generates some DF if the car gets sideways. Also nicked the LMP driver leg exclusion volume (the green box) - makes the chassis harder to sculpt too much to have the sidepod undercut join the keel. This is where it gets hard - thinking of ways to limit yourself while also trying to design the best car you can :lol:
Image

Finish your car - if you don't have access to CFD there'll undoubtedly be someone here who will run it!
Jin.
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Vanja #66
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Vanja #66 » Thu May 03, 2018 7:47 pm

Great job :) A question, aren't those Cp values a bit low on front and rear wings?

jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Thu May 03, 2018 9:45 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:47 pm
Great job :) A question, aren't those Cp values a bit low on front and rear wings?
I can't work out how to plot a 2-d Cp graph but it's well below Cp=-2 on the front wing you cheeky beggar :P
Jin.
#aerogandalf

Vanja #66
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Vanja #66 » Fri May 04, 2018 6:00 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 9:45 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:47 pm
Great job :) A question, aren't those Cp values a bit low on front and rear wings?
I can't work out how to plot a 2-d Cp graph but it's well below Cp=-2 on the front wing you cheeky beggar :P
Hehe... 8)