Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

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jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:22 pm

This. ^

Unfortunately there's too much politicking and self interest in F1 for any positive solution to come to fruition. The 2021 engine compromises are now showing Liberty what a vipers nest F1 really is, it's all lovey-lovey until they try to enact change which would upset the status quo, then Wolff, Abitebouel and Marchionne and co throw the all the toys out of their respective prams.
#aerogandalf

3jawchuck
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by 3jawchuck » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:32 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:52 pm
It seems to me that the desire for lots of overtaking is as a result of a lack of understanding of what F1 is. It's like trying to make all cricket matches in to T20 games. Test matches are a very different to T20, and no less enjoyable to those who love the game.
We got DRS because of this.

I remember Schumacher and Alonso battling (around Imola in the mid 00's comes straight to mind), thrilling stuff, forgot to breathe several times. I also remember watching several Indy and WEC races, lots of passes but not one of them made me sit on the edge of my seat with excitement. I really enjoy rally, not a pass in sight, but blow me do I get all excited about it. As you say, all enjoyable but on totally different levels.

strad
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by strad » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:15 pm

Overtaking should be possible, yes, but it shouldn't be easy. Trying to create lots of overtaking just risks removing the race craft and skill that a racing driver should, by definition, have.
.
Could not agree more. Too often I feel that people just want to see overtaking but don't seem to care so much about the race craft that it should take to pull off a quality pass.
I personally don't care about overtaking as much as the trying,, the side by side racing that may or may not result in a pass.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Webber2011
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Webber2011 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:28 am

Awesome topic, I've not read this thread before and have enjoyed it very much from start to finish :wink:
I really enjoy this side of the forum where there's no fanboy stuff, just somewhere I can learn.

I'm not very technically minded compared to most of you but I'm learning, and have always been very much a "visual" type of person when it comes to understanding theory.
Good images added to complex text help my muddled old brain a great deal :lol:

Unfortunately jjn9128 I can't see any of the images you've posted.
Not sure if your image host has deleted them or what ?
Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers people,
Simo'

roon
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by roon » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:51 pm

Seconded. I missed this thread first time around and also can't access the images.

Jejking
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Jejking » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:38 pm

This is massive, I dig the subject. Will respond soon!

jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Thu May 03, 2018 3:31 pm

Webber2011 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:28 am
Unfortunately jjn9128 I can't see any of the images you've posted.
Not sure if your image host has deleted them or what ?
Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers people,
Simo'
roon wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:51 pm
Seconded. I missed this thread first time around and also can't access the images.
Gosh, guys I'm so sorry. I have no idea how I missed this! For some reason I can't edit the original post to put the images back in but here is the original concept (CxS = 1.157, CzS=1.195, DF/D=1.03):
Image
As developed a bit (CxS = 1.164, CzS=3.138, DF/D=2.70):
Image
And some of the CFD plots:
Image
Image
Image
Image

I'm currently playing around with a concept based on a hybrid of the halo/aeroscreen/Indy screen - i.e. a reinforced screen like the aeroscreen, with constant curvature like the Indycar screen. Will post more CFD if I ever finish it (I'm using Onshape for the CAD and I'm really struggling with the surfacing - it's not doing what I want it to).
Image
#aerogandalf

Blaze1
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Blaze1 » Thu May 03, 2018 5:30 pm

Yes, I thought it was that one jj. My design is quite similar, albeit with more complex front & rear wings and underbody. The front wing in is also narrower, equal to the inside distance between the front wheels and doesn't have the foot-plate, just end-plates that extend backwards for front wheel wake and tyre squirt control. There is a splitter under the drivers legs like we see in contemporary F1, but no side-pod flick-ups ahead of the rear wheels.

jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Thu May 03, 2018 7:00 pm

Blaze1 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:30 pm
Yes, I thought it was that one jj. My design is quite similar, albeit with more complex front & rear wings and underbody. The front wing in is also narrower, equal to the inside distance between the front wheels and doesn't have the foot-plate, just end-plates that extend backwards for front wheel wake and tyre squirt control. There is a splitter under the drivers legs like we see in contemporary F1, but no side-pod flick-ups ahead of the rear wheels.
Heheh yeah my new car will also have a splitter, but now it has a flat floor with no step plane - I've pinched the LMP plank to enforce a minimum ground clearance of 25mm - also being domed it generates some DF if the car gets sideways. Also nicked the LMP driver leg exclusion volume (the green box) - makes the chassis harder to sculpt too much to have the sidepod undercut join the keel. This is where it gets hard - thinking of ways to limit yourself while also trying to design the best car you can :lol:
Image

Finish your car - if you don't have access to CFD there'll undoubtedly be someone here who will run it!
#aerogandalf

Vanja #66
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Vanja #66 » Thu May 03, 2018 7:47 pm

Great job :) A question, aren't those Cp values a bit low on front and rear wings?

jjn9128
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by jjn9128 » Thu May 03, 2018 9:45 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:47 pm
Great job :) A question, aren't those Cp values a bit low on front and rear wings?
I can't work out how to plot a 2-d Cp graph but it's well below Cp=-2 on the front wing you cheeky beggar :P
#aerogandalf

Vanja #66
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Re: Concept for regulations to improve overtaking

Post by Vanja #66 » Fri May 04, 2018 6:00 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 9:45 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:47 pm
Great job :) A question, aren't those Cp values a bit low on front and rear wings?
I can't work out how to plot a 2-d Cp graph but it's well below Cp=-2 on the front wing you cheeky beggar :P
Hehe... 8)