2022 Tyres Thread

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Wass85
3
Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 22:11

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Noon question here, will the teams like Mercedes who run their suspension very stiff be forced to run them softer and more forgiving with this new tyre profile?

michl420
19
Joined: 18 Apr 2010, 17:08
Location: Austria

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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I think a big aspect ( if not the biggest) will be the increased weight(7 kg each tyre). The larger mass will be a Problem for the dampers to react fast. Also, with the larger rim diameter, a pull rod on the front will be interesting again.

izzy
41
Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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michl420 wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 17:32
I think a big aspect ( if not the biggest) will be the increased weight(7 kg each tyre). The larger mass will be a Problem for the dampers to react fast. Also, with the larger rim diameter, a pull rod on the front will be interesting again.
+7kg, is it that much? It seems a lot to me. They only weigh fronts 9.5 kg, rears 11.5 kg atm afaik, and the fronts will be narrower and the tyres should weigh less. The rim part is the same and the axle part, it's only the spokes that have to be longer and thicker. Even without the savings, AZ80 alloy is 1.8gm/cc, so 7000gm is 3.9 litres of metal, which is a lot of spoke!

edit i see on Racefans last year Pirelli were estimating +4.5kg per corner, net. Still seems quite a lot to me but they ought to know. I suppose sidewall, that they're saving, isn't that heavy, but i didn't think magnesium wheels were that heavy either
Last edited by izzy on 21 Nov 2019, 18:36, edited 1 time in total.

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FW17
165
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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LMP1
Michelin tire (37/71-18) - 12.7 Kgs (without wheel).
2014 Michelin tires (31/71-18) - 11.5kg

F1,
Front 245/660-R13 - 8.5kg, Rear 325/660-R13 10 kilos.
Pirelli’s 2017 fronts 305/670-R13 - 9.5kg, rears 405/670-R13 11.5kg

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henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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izzy wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 18:04
michl420 wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 17:32
I think a big aspect ( if not the biggest) will be the increased weight(7 kg each tyre). The larger mass will be a Problem for the dampers to react fast. Also, with the larger rim diameter, a pull rod on the front will be interesting again.
+7kg, is it that much? It seems a lot to me. They only weigh fronts 9.5 kg, rears 11.5 kg atm afaik, and the fronts will be narrower and the tyres should weigh less. The rim part is the same and the axle part, it's only the spokes that have to be longer and thicker. Even without the savings, AZ80 alloy is 1.8gm/cc, so 7000gm is 3.9 litres of metal, which is a lot of spoke!

edit i see on Racefans last year Pirelli were estimating +4.5kg per corner, net. Still seems quite a lot to me but they ought to know. I suppose sidewall, that they're saving, isn't that heavy, but i didn't think magnesium wheels were that heavy either
At a rough approximation the rim will be heavier in the ratio 18:13.

As well as being heavier these wheels and tyre will have a higher rotational inertia. With Pirelli’s 4.5 kg they’ll be 2% lower acceleration because of mass and possibly a further 1% from the inertia.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

izzy
41
Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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henry wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 19:04
At a rough approximation the rim will be heavier in the ratio 18:13.

As well as being heavier these wheels and tyre will have a higher rotational inertia. With Pirelli’s 4.5 kg they’ll be 2% lower acceleration because of mass and possibly a further 1% from the inertia.
perhaps that's where Pirelli got their 4.5kg from, on the rears. yes the rims get longer in circumference don't they, not stay the same weight as I'd been thinking. The spokes presumably go up more than pro rata and offset the axle weight not changing

that's quite a big effect you've calculated! But i'm looking forward to them anyway, depending on the hubcaps

ENGINE TUNER
25
Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 18:07

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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FW17 wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 18:30
LMP1
Michelin tire (37/71-18) - 12.7 Kgs (without wheel).
2014 Michelin tires (31/71-18) - 11.5kg

F1,
Front 245/660-R13 - 8.5kg, Rear 325/660-R13 10 kilos.
Pirelli’s 2017 fronts 305/670-R13 - 9.5kg, rears 405/670-R13 11.5kg
Cool

Source please

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MtthsMlw
1033
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Pirelli Tyre-test, waiting for some better pictures.
Image
via Albert Fabrega

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Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Another shot
Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Wouter
106
Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Another shot. :) Made by George Russell.

Image
The Power of Dreams!

izzy
41
Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Big improvement imo :thumbsup:. Are the F2 cars the same otherwise, next year? It'll be interesting to see their times if they are

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Holm86
243
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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I think it looks pretty good, just too bad they'll be covered up on the 2021 cars #-o

Maplesoup
18
Joined: 18 Jan 2019, 19:25

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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henry wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 19:04
At a rough approximation the rim will be heavier in the ratio 18:13.

As well as being heavier these wheels and tyre will have a higher rotational inertia. With Pirelli’s 4.5 kg they’ll be 2% lower acceleration because of mass and possibly a further 1% from the inertia.
How will the reduced sidewall affect the acceleration off the line? I would of thought the reduced side wall should reduce the creasing of the tire but would that increase mechanical grip?

Drag cars use huge sidewall tires which crease loads but I can't say whether that actually helps or hinders them.

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henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Maplesoup wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 22:35
henry wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 19:04
At a rough approximation the rim will be heavier in the ratio 18:13.

As well as being heavier these wheels and tyre will have a higher rotational inertia. With Pirelli’s 4.5 kg they’ll be 2% lower acceleration because of mass and possibly a further 1% from the inertia.
How will the reduced sidewall affect the acceleration off the line? I would of thought the reduced side wall should reduce the creasing of the tire but would that increase mechanical grip?

Drag cars use huge sidewall tires which crease loads but I can't say whether that actually helps or hinders them.
I’m no expert. My expectation would be that the reduced side wall will reduce the deformation of the tyre which will reduce the contact patch length which in turn will reduce traction. This may be offset by lower tyre pressures. I believe that the “high” pressures required by Pirelli are due to the extreme cyclic flexing at high speed due to aero loads and the extent of the tyre flex. Lower tyre flex should reduce the amount of strain each revolution of the tyre.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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MtthsMlw
1033
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Last edited by MtthsMlw on 08 Dec 2019, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.

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