2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by jjn9128 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:36 am

turbof1 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:12 am
You just know F1 is extreme when they introduce diffusers for their wheel rims :lol:

(I actually want diffuser wheel rims now...)
Yo' F1 be so X-treem they got diffusers on they diffusers!

Image
#aerogandalf

turbof1
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by turbof1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:38 am

#PimpMyF1Ride
#AeroFrodo

holeindalip
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by holeindalip » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:03 pm

i dont know why they havent switched to to a camera system like the back up cameras on road cars and just use a heads up display or mount the mirrors as screens an put them where they wanted.....

JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by JordanMugen » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:57 am

godlameroso wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:11 pm
All this talk about aero, but why does no one talk about cars that can survive some wheel banging when drivers go toe to toe. The cars themselves are sturdy, but the wings are not, and they have a propensity for puncturing tires.
Would you suggest a rule requiring the front and rear wings to be made of (less brittle) aluminium? :)

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NL_Fer wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:24 pm
A lighter car, ... would that need less downforce to corner? Would a lower minimum weight increase racing?
Yes, of course... F=ma

A lighter car by X % will need X % less lateral force [where tyre lateral force ~ tyre friction coefficient * (car weight + downforce) ] to laterally accelerate (corner) at the some amount of lateral gs.

I.e. a 25% lighter car would need 25% less normal force (weight + downforce) to corner at the same lateral gs, other factors being equivalent.

Tim.Wright
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Tim.Wright » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:02 am

JordanMugen wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:57 am
Yes, of course... F=ma

A lighter car by X % will need X % less lateral force [where tyre lateral force ~ tyre friction coefficient * (car weight + downforce) ] to laterally accelerate (corner) at the some amount of lateral gs.

I.e. a 25% lighter car would need 25% less normal force (weight + downforce) to corner at the same lateral gs, other factors being equivalent.
Don't forget that a 25% lighter car isn't going to corner 25% harder as it's also got 25% LESS static weight load on the tyres.
Not the engineer at Force India

Xwang
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Xwang » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:07 pm

At the moment the 2021 ruleset are not formalised yet.
I'm wondering if teams can do unlimited CFD and aero tunnel studies since the actual F1 rules limits CFD and aero tunnels for F1 capable cars, but since the cars designed acording to the proposed 2021 rules are at the moment not complaint with F1, can they use this argument as a loop hole?
Last edited by Xwang on Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

turbof1
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by turbof1 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:49 pm

Xwang wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:07 pm
At the moment the 2012 ruleset are not formalised yet.
I'm wondering if teams can do unlimited CFD and aero tunnel studies since the actual F1 rules limits CFD and aero tunnels for F1 capable cars, but since the cars designed acording to the proposed 2021 rules are at the moment not complaint with F1, can they use this argument as a loop hole?
I'm sure deals are in place to prevent that, or atleast clear guidelines. These are highly competitive teams, on and off the track. They aren't allowing eachother glaring potential advantages.
#AeroFrodo

Maplesoup
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Maplesoup » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:00 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:36 am
turbof1 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:12 am
You just know F1 is extreme when they introduce diffusers for their wheel rims :lol:

(I actually want diffuser wheel rims now...)
Yo' F1 be so X-treem they got diffusers on they diffusers!

https://i.imgflip.com/372vat.jpg
But they exist. Look up turbo fan wheel rims. They were used to extract air from the back of the bar using the wheels like a fan. Not sure they were ever used in F1 however

Smokes
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Smokes » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:20 am

The wheel covers clean up the transient turbulent flow of the air pass through the wheel hub brake and wheel assembly. By cleaning up this transient turbulent airflow it reduced the drag coming from the the center of the moving wheels. The covers got banned because they were expensive 100k a wheel and would cause some dangerous failure modes.If the covers jammed it would cause the wheel to vibrate and cause the covers the break off and it also caused a bunch of wheels to fall off after pit stops.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Jolle » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Xwang wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:07 pm
At the moment the 2021 ruleset are not formalised yet.
I'm wondering if teams can do unlimited CFD and aero tunnel studies since the actual F1 rules limits CFD and aero tunnels for F1 capable cars, but since the cars designed acording to the proposed 2021 rules are at the moment not complaint with F1, can they use this argument as a loop hole?
There are many ways around the CFD and WT limits, parts and theories could easily be executed by other departments at the different constructors, for example a track only road car or a different racing series. Of course this does happen to some extend (suddenly the Austin Martin Valkyrie makes sense) but the teams themselves agreed to the limits and there is some kind of sportmanship between them to honour this agreement. Plus, with 1000+ people within the different organisations and the movement of personal, practices like these would surface.

roon
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by roon » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:06 pm

Are the CFD & WT rules in the technical or sporting regs?

henry
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by henry » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:56 pm

roon wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:06 pm
Are the CFD & WT rules in the technical or sporting regs?
It’s appendix 8 of the F1 Sporting Regs
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Pyrone89
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Pyrone89 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:04 pm

Smokes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:20 am
The wheel covers clean up the transient turbulent flow of the air pass through the wheel hub brake and wheel assembly. By cleaning up this transient turbulent airflow it reduced the drag coming from the the center of the moving wheels. The covers got banned because they were expensive 100k a wheel and would cause some dangerous failure modes.If the covers jammed it would cause the wheel to vibrate and cause the covers the break off and it also caused a bunch of wheels to fall off after pit stops.
How the hell do you spent 400k on 4 small pieces of relatively basic round pieces of carbon? :shock:

rscsr
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by rscsr » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:27 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:04 pm
Smokes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:20 am
The wheel covers clean up the transient turbulent flow of the air pass through the wheel hub brake and wheel assembly. By cleaning up this transient turbulent airflow it reduced the drag coming from the the center of the moving wheels. The covers got banned because they were expensive 100k a wheel and would cause some dangerous failure modes.If the covers jammed it would cause the wheel to vibrate and cause the covers the break off and it also caused a bunch of wheels to fall off after pit stops.
How the hell do you spent 400k on 4 small pieces of relatively basic round pieces of carbon? :shock:
because they always include development costs and therefore arrive at ridiculous costs.
It's the same BS all the time in F1.

Smokes
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post by Smokes » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:42 pm

also don't forget balancing mechanism to stop the cover rotating...