2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
mzso
mzso
50
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Maplesoup wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:54 am
mzso wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:32 am
Huh. I thought this thread would be really active with the apparent leak of the near-final aero concept.
Its really difficult to discuss the concept, the regulations haven't been released yet. FOM's idea of what a project INDIA car might look like should end up being completely different as to what the teams actually come up with.
The teams are not coming up with anything of their own. FOM is designing the formula they send feedback. (No doubt they're selfishly trying to protect their advantages no matter what)
Ultimately FOM makes the rules unilaterally. Sure they didn't want to alienate teams enough to cause mass exit or break-away into a different championship. But I think we're way past that. Brawn didn't sound like the formula will change a lot from now-on, he sad that the formula (and the rest) is near done on the Sky interview.

Sulman
Sulman
1
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:28 am

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

I guarantee it will be more interesting than it looks; F1 is not going to go spec. Brawn knows that the rule changes thus far have achieved very little, in fact - irony of ironies - the '09 changes exacerbated the very problem they were intended to solve. My guess is there will be plenty for the aero guys to play with.

Not keen on any weight increase, though. The cars are already far too heavy.

User avatar
DiogoBrand
68
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 6:02 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:32 pm
50% to 5% sounds wrong, not sure where that's from, you have a source??
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... mbncK.html

mzso
mzso
50
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

DiogoBrand wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:59 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:32 pm
50% to 5% sounds wrong, not sure where that's from, you have a source??
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... mbncK.html
Which is mostly a transcript of his answers on the pre-qualifying interview broadcasted on Sky. (Though they cut out the questions, a practice I really hate.)

User avatar
jagunx51
178
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:06 am

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

How will F1 revolutionise the racing in 2021? Its new concept car analysed

F1 technology Posted on
2nd April 2019, 12:18 | Written by Craig Scarborough


Despite changes aimed at improving the racing this year, current F1 cars lose 50% of their downforce when running behind another car.

Formula 1 plans to change that with a radical overhaul of car design in two years’ time. F1 motorsport director Ross Brawn has said some of their concepts for 2021 lose as little as 5% of their downforce in the slipstream of another car.
How is F1 planning to revolutionise the quality of racing in the championship? And what changes are they considering to bring about this change?

Craig Scarborough takes a close look at India, one of the concept designs for the 2021 F1 season, to find out.

We are now nearing the point where the final plans for the 2021 F1 regulations will be made public. To get to this point, the FIA with Liberty and FOM have been working in a new way to decide the technical direction of F1.

Under the leadership of Ross Brawn, a technical research and development group has been created and, for the first time, the rules will have been thoroughly researched and qualified before their release.

To do this Brawn’s technical team have had simulation programmes running to meet the aims given to them by Liberty, the primary aim being making it easier to follow another car and thus making it easier to overtake. The secondary aims are equalising the field, reducing costs and improving the aesthetics of the cars.

Along the way the teams have been assisting Brawn with further CFD research on a series of car concepts, the current model being called ‘India’, apparently as the ninth version, with “I” being the ninth letter of the alphabet. Looking at the ‘India’ car CFD model, we can see the direction that the sport is thinking of going in, although some of the final details may be missing or current details deleted. Taking the model at face value we can analyse how F1 aero might work in the future.

Firstly, the key issues the Brawn group have worked on are reducing the sensitivity of the car’s downforce-producing surfaces when following another, then reducing the wake generated by the car ahead. These can be opposing requirements, but the model appears to have met these basic aims by shifting downforce creation to larger underfloor tunnels, while cleaning up wake by the simplification of the aero, with a few additional aero solutions to make the car’s wake cleaner.
:arrow: :arrow: https://www.racefans.net/2019/04/02/how ... -analysed/
............!!!!

mzso
mzso
50
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Interesting. Though no matter how long I look at the picture I don't see these vanes as something that move with the suspension.
There's already reference to whining about that minuscule blade above the front tires...

User avatar
Capharol
21
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

roon
roon
412
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Just a thought. Drastically reduce car weight. Downforce can then be reduced while maintaining cornering forces. Reduced aero device loading will permit higher aspect ratio wings and reduced loading upon aero devices generally. Wake will be reduced in size and energy--cars will be able to follow more closely. Vehicle pace in general could be maintained.

Basically go from formula pigeon to formula owl.


FPV GTHO
FPV GTHO
8
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:57 am

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

It would work but it's alot easier said then done. There's alot of reasons the cars got so heavy to begin with, that I think gets casually ignored when the idea of lighter cars comes up. It's one thing to drop the batteries or go to a smaller battery, or to mandate smaller cars but there's also alot of weight in how might tighter the crash regulations have become.

User avatar
JordanMugen
68
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

roon wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:00 am
Just a thought. Drastically reduce car weight. Downforce can then be reduced while maintaining cornering forces.
Sounds like...

Image

:shock:

To clarify, Indycar Delta Wing proposal had the same ideas: half the weight, half the power, less drag, less downforce, but the same lap times.
“We wanted to make a car that is twice as efficient in every way, it should use half the fuel, cost half as much, use half the engine power and weigh half as much yet still go as fast or even faster than a current Indycar” explained Bowlby at the cars launch.
https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... deltawing/

roon
roon
412
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Concept has aged well. Too bad they didn't pursue it. Would've been a successful publicity stunt.

User avatar
jjn9128
744
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

roon wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 6:51 pm
Concept has aged well. Too bad they didn't pursue it. Would've been a successful publicity stunt.
As far as publicity goes it had some fairly successful outings in IMSA didn't it? In the open and coupe configurations. It was doing okay at Le Mans in 2012 - toward the tail end of the P2s - before being punted into a wall by a Toyota.

I must admit when I first saw it I thought it was kinda ugly, but it's grown on me. I prefer the P1 version to the original single seater though.

roon wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:00 am
Just a thought. Drastically reduce car weight. Downforce can then be reduced while maintaining cornering forces. Reduced aero device loading will permit higher aspect ratio wings and reduced loading upon aero devices generally. Wake will be reduced in size and energy--cars will be able to follow more closely. Vehicle pace in general could be maintained.
As far as 2021 goes this ain't gonna happen, if anything the cars will probably get heavier. I fully agree though. They could easily set a target lap-time/corner speeds in lap simulations and fiddle with the car parameters to make it work. F1 cars should be closer to 500kg, not 800kg, but the power-to-weight doesn't need to exceed the current 1200-1300bhp/tonne.

Some basic numbers are 0.03s/kg, 0.03s/downforce point, 0.06s/drag point, 0.02s/bhp, 0.01s/mm COG height. Very roughly from that if you halved downforce (current cars have between 360 and 400 points of downforce*) then the cars need to shed 180-200kg for an equivalent lap-time. That's not changing drag or power though, so cornering speeds would likely be slower.

*estimated, depends on a number of factors
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

mzso
mzso
50
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:09 pm
F1 cars should be closer to 500kg, not 800kg, but the power-to-weight doesn't need to exceed the current 1200-1300bhp/tonne.
Why? So that only midgets could compete in F1?

I don't think that size should be a pre-requisite in a car racing series. Too many sports are inherently biased to some body size, don't need to make one (car racing) that's not fundamentally affected one of these.

I'd sooner like to see them chop a meter off the cars. (eg: limit length to 4m ) Their proportions are ridiculous looking, and it makes them sluggish. Would also aid in reducing the significance of aero.

Sulman
Sulman
1
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:28 am

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 6:23 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:09 pm
F1 cars should be closer to 500kg, not 800kg, but the power-to-weight doesn't need to exceed the current 1200-1300bhp/tonne.
Why? So that only midgets could compete in F1?

I don't think that size should be a pre-requisite in a car racing series. Too many sports are inherently biased to some body size, don't need to make one (car racing) that's not fundamentally affected one of these.

I'd sooner like to see them chop a meter off the cars. (eg: limit length to 4m ) Their proportions are ridiculous looking, and it makes them sluggish. Would also aid in reducing the significance of aero.
I think it will be difficult with the PU requirements. The cars could both be lighter and smaller if it weren't for the enormous amount of things they have to stuff in them now. I agree on the looks. Also I will be glad to see the back of the skewed/swept endplate trend which is now everywhere.

mzso
mzso
50
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2021 Aero Thread

Post

Sulman wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 6:52 pm
I think it will be difficult with the PU requirements. The cars could both be lighter and smaller if it weren't for the enormous amount of things they have to stuff in them now
I see no problem, the can always be built to be chunkier. Nowadays they look a tad morbid with the rear wheels appear to being mounted on almost nothing they're so far back to where's barely any chassis.