2022 Aero Thread

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:08 pm
That's my point, we started complaining they were too slow even though they offered great racing.
They were slower than Super Formula cars in corners, which was just ridiculous. The current cars that attack corners in aggressive fashion, despite their high weight, are great. I think it is extremely unlikely the 2021 cars will be 5 seconds per lap slower.

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GM7
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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In 2021, with the return of ground effect and bigger tyres what can we expect from a drag point of view ? Will the 2021's cars be faster in straight line ?

shady
shady
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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I have a question about the FW, based on the legality boxes what is stopping the teams from using the FW primarily as a pre-conditioner for the mouth of the floor? Its been used for outwash, inwash, they lifted the nose to get more air around the sidepods, with a stronger Y250. Given that back when GE was being used the need for FW was low, I imagine that the case will be similar today (given 40 years advances in engineering), what would stop teams from re-purposing the area of the front wing as such, it could obfuscate the objective of following close.

Also can you go into the wisdom of GE cars and purely mechanical suspension; isnt this the same recipe that took GE away from us the first time?

OT rant -The communication that because the fans cannot see a part, means they are not interested and the teams shouldnt spend money on those parts, looks down on fans intelligence and ability to understand how the cars function as a whole system. This is formally an engineering competition (the money is paid to the constructors). Minimizing that (as a fan) is not a good look.

mzso
mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:14 pm
On track action? Hungary 98 for example had on track action?? Watching Schumacher do 50 quali laps and pass the Mclarens through the pits! I mean from a strategy point of view yes it was epic...but no on track action!

And i've watched many races from that era recently...Nurburgring 1997 comes to my mind now...Schumacher right under the gearbox of the Williams in front at the last corner lap after lap, never able to pass into Turn 1...what on earth?? Then people ask why do we need DRS! Just boring...
You can always cherry pick a few GP's that sucked. Besides, when was the Hungarian GP ever exciting? I only remember that one rainy race (but not what actually happened.)
But I remember a lot of Battles between Schumacher, Villeneuve and Häkkinen. It was utterly boring by the Ferrari era and never really recovered. There were some accidentally better seasons like 2007, but not many.

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Capharol
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:07 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:14 pm
On track action? Hungary 98 for example had on track action?? Watching Schumacher do 50 quali laps and pass the Mclarens through the pits! I mean from a strategy point of view yes it was epic...but no on track action!

And i've watched many races from that era recently...Nurburgring 1997 comes to my mind now...Schumacher right under the gearbox of the Williams in front at the last corner lap after lap, never able to pass into Turn 1...what on earth?? Then people ask why do we need DRS! Just boring...
You can always cherry pick a few GP's that sucked. Besides, when was the Hungarian GP ever exciting? I only remember that one rainy race (but not what actually happened.)
But I remember a lot of Battles between Schumacher, Villeneuve and Häkkinen. It was utterly boring by the Ferrari era and never really recovered. There were some accidentally better seasons like 2007, but not many.
guys this is the 2021 Aero topic, and what you guys talk about is way off topic

Thank you....
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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shady wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:15 pm
This is formally an engineering competition (the money is paid to the constructors).
There will still be plenty of things to engineer and optimise, no need to worry about that. :)

Be it fuels, oils, harvesting strategy, combustion, suspension geometry, clutch, composite layups -- even the bodywork surfaces retain a significant degree of freedoms... So many things are open for some level of development in the regulation, there is no need to worry about a glorified open wheel Carrera Cup.

I think banishing the highly sensitive "raked" cars -- that make a mockery of 1982's flat floor regulation that intended for the floor to be flat -- is absolutely a positive development. The teams have gamed the reference plane regulation, and decided to run their entire car at an angle of attack such that the floor is at an angle of attack for ground effect and not flat at all.

Perhaps FIA should have stuck with the 100mm ride height rule, enforced by laser, that they originally had when they dreamt up the flat floor... :shock:

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DiogoBrand
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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I wonder why all the renders show the sidepod openings with that futuristic looking angle. In the end everyone knows it's gonna look a lot more like this.

Image

FPV GTHO
FPV GTHO
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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shady wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:15 pm
I have a question about the FW, based on the legality boxes what is stopping the teams from using the FW primarily as a pre-conditioner for the mouth of the floor? Its been used for outwash, inwash, they lifted the nose to get more air around the sidepods, with a stronger Y250. Given that back when GE was being used the need for FW was low, I imagine that the case will be similar today (given 40 years advances in engineering), what would stop teams from re-purposing the area of the front wing as such, it could obfuscate the objective of following close.

Also can you go into the wisdom of GE cars and purely mechanical suspension; isnt this the same recipe that took GE away from us the first time?

OT rant -The communication that because the fans cannot see a part, means they are not interested and the teams shouldnt spend money on those parts, looks down on fans intelligence and ability to understand how the cars function as a whole system. This is formally an engineering competition (the money is paid to the constructors). Minimizing that (as a fan) is not a good look.
The weight balance and tyre sizes are world's apart between the 2021 cars and previous venturi era cars. The aero balance will need to match so the FW will still need to do alot of work.

base_1000
base_1000
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:33 pm
2021 rule boxes :o ... I'm going for a nap now. https://pz1wqw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m14- ... pmode=none
New member here, was that published by the FIA or was it made by you? I'm trying to find the source as I'm thinking of remaking the model I made prior to the official announcement of the regulations.

Maplesoup
Maplesoup
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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I think simplified aero regulations are a great thing. There is far too much aero work in building an F1 car currently, they have to relay on people like Newey to come up with base concepts for the car and then build on top of that. Newey's being this high rake style car.

The aero guys can then build on top of the concept within the regulations. This is why you can't just open the regulations up because there is too much work teams would turn up with half a car.

But by being more prescriptive with the regulations teams can spend more time testing the underlying concepts of the car design. Making them less reliant on the "aero gods" and more able to build a car from scratch.

Most teams currently just copy another teams concept this should reduce that

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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base_1000 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:45 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:33 pm
2021 rule boxes :o ... I'm going for a nap now. https://pz1wqw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m14- ... pmode=none
New member here, was that published by the FIA or was it made by you? I'm trying to find the source as I'm thinking of remaking the model I made prior to the official announcement of the regulations.
I made the boxes from the definition in the regulation. They're published on the FIA website. You have to look at the appendix not article 3.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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shady wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:15 pm
I have a question about the FW, based on the legality boxes what is stopping the teams from using the FW primarily as a pre-conditioner for the mouth of the floor? Its been used for outwash, inwash, they lifted the nose to get more air around the sidepods, with a stronger Y250. Given that back when GE was being used the need for FW was low, I imagine that the case will be similar today (given 40 years advances in engineering), what would stop teams from re-purposing the area of the front wing as such, it could obfuscate the objective of following close.

Also can you go into the wisdom of GE cars and purely mechanical suspension; isnt this the same recipe that took GE away from us the first time?
The front wing is always a flow conditioner for what follows, get it wrong and you can stall suspension/sidepods, prevent cooling, even destroy rear wing performance. Even when optimised, if you got rid of the front wing you'd gain more downforce at the rear of the car - however that car would be fundamentally unbalanced. Going back to the pre-83 cars firstly the wheelbase was really short, plus the car's were ~150kg lighter and the centre of gravity was free to play with. So you could engineer a balanced car by moving the floor's centre of pressure forward, so could often run without a front wing or just a small flap.

A key part of these rules is the role the rear wing plays in helping the wake to pass over another car - so you need a front wing to balance it. Team bosses also want a big surface to stick logos on :lol:
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Have the number of front wing elements been increased from 3 in the earlier concept up to 4? :?:

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strad
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Villeneuve also questions the 2021 technical regulations, with cars that are three to four seconds slower per lap designed to be easier to race wheel to wheel.
"We don't care if they are slower," Villeneuve said. "All they need to do is design cars that are hard to drive. But now they'll be 25 kg heavier. The heavier they are, the more stable they are. It will not help.
"We will have a show when cars are lighter and more nervous. That will not be the case. Speed has nothing to do with the quality of the races."
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Why are they making them so heavy, what is the lightest they could make them carrying these engines whilst being safe enough for today's era?