Evolution of F1 car weight

[DChemTech]

I think we miss the point in some way when we focus on one issue e.g. weight. The reality is that the cars are bigger and heavier, yet they are able to go significantly faster around a track whilst using less fuel and using major components that last for much longer even though they are more complicated.

Last year's lame duck, the Williams, would have taken pole in the 2007 Austrlian GP in the hands of Kubica (who was the slower of the two Williams drivers). Russell would have been over 1.5s ahead of Kimi's pole time. Just think about that.

They are faster, but does that make it more exiting?
The cars these days look like trains. Way too long, inert, on rails. And even if they are in wheel to wheel action, it just doesn't look the same as, say, Senna v. Mansell in those overpowered bumpercars. I think I have more of an issue with the cars being oversized than overweight.

[Just_a_fan]

I think we miss the point in some way when we focus on one issue e.g. weight. The reality is that the cars are bigger and heavier, yet they are able to go significantly faster around a track whilst using less fuel and using major components that last for much longer even though they are more complicated.

Last year's lame duck, the Williams, would have taken pole in the 2007 Austrlian GP in the hands of Kubica (who was the slower of the two Williams drivers). Russell would have been over 1.5s ahead of Kimi's pole time. Just think about that.

They are faster, but does that make it more exiting?
The cars these days look like trains. Way too long, inert, on rails. And even if they are in wheel to wheel action, it just doesn't look the same as, say, Senna v. Mansell in those overpowered bumpercars. I think I have more of an issue with the cars being oversized than overweight.

The whole car is much more developed than the "good old days". Look at a late 80s/early 90s car and the detailing is rubbish. They were really quite crude things compared to today. Modern cars don't behave like "overpowered bumpercars" because that isn't the quickest way around a race track. And ultimately, racing is about being the quickest around the race track. (ignoring, for the moment, the oft quoted "winning in the slowest time possible")

If you mandated that the cars should have engines/gearboxes like they had "back in the day", the cars would still be more like today's than yesteryear's cars because the engineers know stuff they didn't back then. The cars wouldn't necessarily be exciting to watch because "exciting to watch" really means "slow".

[izzy]

Would it be possible to do away with the minimum weight entirely and increase the crash testing requirements significantly to encourage weight loss but not at the cost of safety? I guess that would mess with the cost saving the FIA are aiming for.

yes this is what i think too. There are way too many minimum weights all over the place, and the actual crash test speeds are really feeble, like 38 mph, and they haven't designed for car-to-car impacts at all, apart from halo

but yes exactly they keep going on about cost, trying to make F1 cheap

[bill shoe]

Would it be possible to do away with the minimum weight entirely and increase the crash testing requirements significantly to encourage weight loss but not at the cost of safety? I guess that would mess with the cost saving the FIA are aiming for.

When I was a young lad I was always impressed at how light and agile the F1 cares were in comparison to the CART cars of the time. I do wish F1 cars were still light and agile.

If we have an overall spending cap in place then the last logical rationale for weight minimums goes away. Verify your compliance with spending caps, verify your car passes all safety requirements, and go racing!

[Baulz]

Has there ever been a maximum car length rule at anytime in the past? While the current car weight bothers me, the overall size bothers me more. If the car length and wheelbase was reduced to what was common in the past the weight problem would look after itself.

[Just_a_fan]

The cars weigh what they weigh mostly because of the power train, not because they are long. They are long for packaging reasons in order to fit all of the kit in without having sidepods as wide as the floor. You could make them be shorter just by saying "the sidepods must be as wide as the floor within this zone" and then make a zone like the old FW14:

[Just_a_fan]

I'd forgotten how simply "right" that car looked.

[jjn9128]

Has there ever been a maximum car length rule at anytime in the past? While the current car weight bothers me, the overall size bothers me more. If the car length and wheelbase was reduced to what was common in the past the weight problem would look after itself.

2021 will have a maximum wheelbase of 3.6m, ~100mm shorter than this years cars. Brawn wanted 3.4m but the teams stretched it. The increasing wheelbase started in the 70s, but has ramped up in the last 6/7 years. I think there was a limit of 5m for the car length in the past, but I'm struggling to remember when...

[hollus]

Evolution of F1 car minimum weight (with driver)

1995	595 kg
2009	605 kg	Optional KERS weight 30kg... 20kg of which to fit within existing ballast provision?
2010	620 kg
2013	642 kg	Last year of V8 engines
2014	691 kg	First year of hybrid V6 engines
2015	702 kg	Adjustment for second hybrid year
2017	728 kg	Wider wheels and tyres
2018	734 kg	Halo introduced
2019	743 kg	80kg driver/seat allowance; halo 'correction'; new wing regulations; rear wing 
		lights
2020	746 kg	Agreed-upon adjustment, plus second fuel flow meter
2021	768 kg	New rules, including heavier standard parts

It makes sense, doesn't it? It would have taken advances in material sciences to achieve anything more in 2020 than in 1995 with the same weight as in 1995.

[JordanMugen]

Has there ever been a maximum car length rule at anytime in the past? While the current car weight bothers me, the overall size bothers me more. If the car length and wheelbase was reduced to what was common in the past the weight problem would look after itself.

Source: Formula One official twitter

The 1991 car is my favourite, with the 2.15m width, narrow front tyres and ~4.3m overall length... it looks just right IMO.

The current 2m wide and 5.5m long cars with huge front tyres don't look quite as pleasing do they? Still a bit too narrow and far, far too long. But you can't blame the teams for chasing the extra (primarily aerodynamic?) performance that a long wheelbase offers.

It would be nice to see the maximum width reverted to the "proper" dimension of 2.15m, but it's a shame there is no regulatory appetite for that given so much emphasis on reducing wake width to aid following in the 2021 rules.

[Zynerji]

I'd love to see:

2008: chassis, width, wings, engine, gearbox, halo, refueling, flow restrictions.
2020: bargeboards, sidepods, tyres, hybrid system, TJI, tyres and reliability.

That would be my fav. 2.4l turboH V8 with AWD KERS in the sleek aero and huge tyres.

Dream!

[michl420]

I know a easy way to reduce car weight, write it in the technical Regulation and every Team will do it. I think 710 kg is possible These days. I know it is expensive, but with the Budget cap it is the same for everyone. For me, lightweight construction should be a big part in Formula one.

[Just_a_fan]

I know a easy way to reduce car weight, write it in the technical Regulation and every Team will do it. I think 710 kg is possible These days. I know it is expensive, but with the Budget cap it is the same for everyone. For me, lightweight construction should be a big part in Formula one.

How would you take 50kg out of the current cars without them turning in to unsafe places to be in a shunt?

Or do you mean get rid of the heavy, but energy efficient, kit in the back?

[Ringleheim]

These cars are big heavy pigs and keep getting worse.

Go back and watch Jean Alesi's qualifying lap on the bumpy roads of Phoenix in 1990 in the Tyrrell.

You can actually see the lightness/lack of bulk in that car. It is so light and nimble on its feet.

Looks totally different to these current cars.

The Tyrrell sounds a hell of a lot better, too. Yes, it was slower back then, but not in a way that is detectible to the naked eye. It actually looks much faster due to that light weight twitchiness the car had.

Everything in F1 goes in cycles and the day will come when we rotate back to proper NA engines and "simplicity" in F1. Can't wait!

[jjn9128]

Found an interesting paper by Mario Theissen about BMW's F1 engines... between 2000 and 2005 with the 3li V10s they managed to reduce the engine weight from 117kg to 82kg and bring the COG down from 167mm down to 118mm. Power increased from 810bhp to 950bhp.

Since 2006 and the 2.4li V8s the weight and COG of the engine were fixed... 95kg and 165mm, but Theissen suggests BMW could have achieved 69kg and 118mm. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to suggest the minimum weight of the power units are a bit OTT and given a little leeway the manufacturers could well bring the weight of the power units down. I guess there's a question of costs though...