Assuming FIA & Liberty decide to go fully electric with Formula 1 by 2025 or 2026 (and resolves contractual issues with FIA Formula E), what would the performance level of an electric Formula One car be?
Would they be more likely to go down a hydrogen fuel route than fully electric?JordanMugen wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:54Assuming FIA & Liberty decide to go fully electric with Formula 1 by 2025 or 2026 (and resolves contractual issues with FIA Formula E), what would the performance level of an electric Formula One car be?
Is it feasible to retain the 2020 levels of 725kW power & 856kg weight (746kg min weight + 110kg max fuel in 2020), while having 305km (GP distance) of range on a single charge?
They cannot. FE have been given full rights to be the only full electric series. It was a Todt v Bernie thing.JordanMugen wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:54Assuming FIA & Liberty decide to go fully electric with Formula 1 by 2025 or 2026 (and resolves contractual issues with FIA Formula E), what would the performance level of an electric Formula One car be?
Is it feasible to retain the 2020 levels of 725kW power & 856kg weight (746kg min weight + 110kg max fuel in 2020), while having 305km (GP distance) of range on a single charge?
Big Tea wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 17:00They cannot. FE have been given full rights to be the only full electric series. It was a Todt v Bernie thing.JordanMugen wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:54Assuming FIA & Liberty decide to go fully electric with Formula 1 by 2025 or 2026 (and resolves contractual issues with FIA Formula E), what would the performance level of an electric Formula One car be?
Is it feasible to retain the 2020 levels of 725kW power & 856kg weight (746kg min weight + 110kg max fuel in 2020), while having 305km (GP distance) of range on a single charge?
Can you confirm that it is Single Seaters, or Open Wheel Single Seaters?jjn9128 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 21:21The limiting factor for F1 length races is battery capacity/weight. Formula E run 45minute + 1lap and with the gen 3 car plan a top up pit stop. That said Formula E are deliberately limiting battery capacity to force an emphasis on regen.
Also the formula E electric single seater monopoly lasts until 2039.
We had a conversation on here before about a liquid battery with a pit-stop changeable electrolyte. It would necessarily need a push-pull type refueling rig, but should be safer than gasoline. Might get that battery down a few hundred Kilo...henry wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 23:46Some simple numbers
An F1 car starts the race with about 4500MJ of energy in the fuel. It processes it about 45% efficiency giving 2000MJ of deployable energy. State of the art batteries are about 1MJ/kg. So 2 tonne of battery.
It also recovers about 60MJ from braking. This is artificially constrained at 120kW. We might think that an electric formula might allow recovery at the max power of the car, say 700kW. The Battery size now shrinks to 1700MJ. Still 1700kg.
To match the average weight of a current car during a race, around 800kg, the battery would need to be about 170kg. (A very rough estimate)
Seems challenging.
They un bolt and replace wheels for a tyre change??Zynerji wrote: ↑03 Oct 2020, 00:34We had a conversation on here before about a liquid battery with a pit-stop changeable electrolyte. It would necessarily need a push-pull type refueling rig, but should be safer than gasoline. Might get that battery down a few hundred Kilo...henry wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 23:46Some simple numbers
An F1 car starts the race with about 4500MJ of energy in the fuel. It processes it about 45% efficiency giving 2000MJ of deployable energy. State of the art batteries are about 1MJ/kg. So 2 tonne of battery.
It also recovers about 60MJ from braking. This is artificially constrained at 120kW. We might think that an electric formula might allow recovery at the max power of the car, say 700kW. The Battery size now shrinks to 1700MJ. Still 1700kg.
To match the average weight of a current car during a race, around 800kg, the battery would need to be about 170kg. (A very rough estimate)
Seems challenging.
I think it's whatever the FIA decide. Formula E is their baby - they even had a hand in the aesthetics of the car design.
Great post!
The strong point of FE is that they are racing in innercities and not on permanent circuits. It’s a great way to entertain your guests in a Monaco like surrounding with all of their favourite restaurants, clubs, etc. The electric part is almost there to make the city racing possible.JordanMugen wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 22:22Great post!
Hmm, so if there were three battery swaps during the Grand Prix, you could get that battery weight down to 425kg. So that could be a 1025kg Formula car with 700kW -- that's not unreasonable.
I can envisage driving into the pits, up onto a scissor-lift ramp, the battery pack being dropped out from below and new pack inserted, and then driving off (all while on environmentally-friendly full-weekend tyres, naturally).
Makes you wonder why Formula E insist on Formula 3-speed cars on temporary circuits, when they could have 700kW cars on full-sized permanent circuits!?
I'm not sure this would work from a marketing POV. Manufacturers are trying to develop and sell EVs on the basis of environmental benefits without compromises (i.e convincing the buyer that EVs are viable from a range POV). Having you best efforts in the pinnacle of motorsport, transmitted across the globe changing batteries every 30-40mins is unlikely to convince buyers EVs are viable.JordanMugen wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 22:22Great post!
Hmm, so if there were three battery swaps during the Grand Prix, you could get that battery weight down to 425kg. So that could be a 1025kg Formula car with 700kW -- that's not unreasonable.
I can envisage driving into the pits, up onto a scissor-lift ramp, the battery pack being dropped out from below and new pack inserted, and then driving off (all while on environmentally-friendly full-weekend tyres, naturally).
Makes you wonder why Formula E insist on Formula 3-speed cars on temporary circuits, when they could have 700kW cars on full-sized permanent circuits!?
