2009 design concepts

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Norseman
Norseman
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:35 am

2009 design concepts

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Hi everyone,

New guy around here, very excited to have found these forums for us F1 fans and F1 technology fantatics. I'd like to know if any of you have ran across any renderings or other images of what the 2009 cars will end up looking like... or what people believe they will look like... usually, with such dramatic changes in rules, publications and websites will have images showing the expected design changes. But I have yet to run across anything like this. I personally am really looking forward to the new look!

Thanks in advance.

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Scotracer
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: 2009 design concepts

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Hi there, welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately we've all been clamouring for images of the 2009 cars but I myself using the proposed regulations of the OWG/TWG have made up two drawings. My own drawing capabilities are poor so please don't be too harsh:

Based on Ferrari 248F1
Image

Based on BMW Sauber F1.08
Image

It's only to give you a very rough idea but I personally think the cars look good.
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

boci
boci
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:46 pm

Re: 2009 design concepts

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The cars will have bigger rear wheels also

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Scotracer
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: 2009 design concepts

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boci wrote:The cars will have bigger rear wheels also
Sorry but that was dropped -- the wheels/tyres will have the same dimensions the current grooved tyres.
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

boci
boci
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:46 pm

Re: 2009 design concepts

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Scotracer wrote:
boci wrote:The cars will have bigger rear wheels also
Sorry but that was dropped -- the wheels/tyres will have the same dimensions the current grooved tyres.

Oh, well that is weird I thought they made the tires bigger so they fill the space left by the smaller rear wing, this will make the cars look even more stupid.

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guy_smiley
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:22 am

Re: 2009 design concepts

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I'm sorry to be the one to say this, but F1 is still going to be F1, and the lot of us are still going to watch it despite the new regs. Who knows, maybe there will be more viewers because of the new regs. I, for one, think we'll see a closer field, but I think we'll also see more disparity. To "un-confuse" you, what I'm saying is that (I personally think) we'll see Ferrari, McLaren, Honda, BMW, and Toyota, with their vast resources, be in the championship battle [they should be better suited to cope with the changes]. But then teams like Williams (unfortunately), FI, Red Bull, and (whatever becomes of) Toro Rosso will be way behind. In other words, I think the battle between the teams with great resources (Ferrari, McLaren, Honda, Toyota, BMW) will be very close, and then there will be a big drop-off of performance.

p.s. On this 2009 topic, I just want to say that we know Ferrari was the first to test in the wind tunnel, and at a Barcelona test a while back Schumacher was testing a Ferrari with no winglets/flip-ups/etc. Without causing an argument (please!), I was wondering what all of you, every single one of you, think about which teams will do well next year. From the member who has 7 posts to the member who has 700 posts, I know for sure that you all have an opinion on 2009, so please express! :)
Smiles all 'round!

Giblet
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Location: Downtown Canada

Re: 2009 design concepts

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I can't be specific, but I can be sure that will be more surprises in 2009.

People like Gascoyne and Newey could build a great car with a clean sheer of paper.

Both Force 1ndia and Red Bull/TR have shown remarkable mechanical traction in the wet, so with aero meaning far less in 2009, watch for these designers to shine brightly again.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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Scotracer
3
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: 2009 design concepts

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guy_smiley wrote:I'm sorry to be the one to say this, but F1 is still going to be F1, and the lot of us are still going to watch it despite the new regs. Who knows, maybe there will be more viewers because of the new regs. I, for one, think we'll see a closer field, but I think we'll also see more disparity. To "un-confuse" you, what I'm saying is that (I personally think) we'll see Ferrari, McLaren, Honda, BMW, and Toyota, with their vast resources, be in the championship battle [they should be better suited to cope with the changes]. But then teams like Williams (unfortunately), FI, Red Bull, and (whatever becomes of) Toro Rosso will be way behind. In other words, I think the battle between the teams with great resources (Ferrari, McLaren, Honda, Toyota, BMW) will be very close, and then there will be a big drop-off of performance.

p.s. On this 2009 topic, I just want to say that we know Ferrari was the first to test in the wind tunnel, and at a Barcelona test a while back Schumacher was testing a Ferrari with no winglets/flip-ups/etc. Without causing an argument (please!), I was wondering what all of you, every single one of you, think about which teams will do well next year. From the member who has 7 posts to the member who has 700 posts, I know for sure that you all have an opinion on 2009, so please express! :)
I personally think Honda. With Brawn in control of the direction and the obvious emphasis on that car, I think they will be the biggest beneficiary of the new regulations. Not saying they will be ultimately the quickest but they will take a great step forward. Also, Red Bull because Newey relishes with new regulations

:)
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

zac510
zac510
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:58 am

Re: 2009 design concepts

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How are you so sure that it will be a cleansheet design? I don't think many teams have done a cleansheet design for quite a while. Evolution is more the thing these days, even with big rule changes.
No good turn goes unpunished.

miqi23
miqi23
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:31 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 2009 design concepts

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Have a look at the Ferrari A1GP car, that looks like a 2009 F1 car! Wider tyres, smooth body work, lower front wing and a narrower rear wing.

There will be some exciting designs even though no flick-ups etc are allowed anymore. Anyways, we will have to wait and see what's coming..

timbo
timbo
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Re: 2009 design concepts

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miqi23 wrote:Have a look at the Ferrari A1GP car, that looks like a 2009 F1 car! Wider tyres, smooth body work, lower front wing and a narrower rear wing.
Yep! I thought that Ferrari may use the info from A1GP to their advantage.

bazanaius
bazanaius
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:16 pm

Re: 2009 design concepts

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I doubt that it would help tbh. IIRC the A1GP car is based upon the F2004, and hence is already outdated. also, it runs a completely different engine packaging.
I guess it might help with testing on low-aero and slicks; maybe why ferrari had a model in the wind tunnel so early.
Overall I'd imagine they were already fairly happy with their development of the 09 car.

jwielage
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:12 pm
Location: New York City

Re: 2009 design concepts

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I disagree with the statement that 2009 cars will simplt be an evolution of the '08 chasis.

From to perspective of aerodynamics F1 development has been evolutionary in recent history. The development of aerodynamics path dependant process, so your possition today is the single biggest determining factor in your possition tomorow or next year. This is why teams like BMW have seen success come more gradualy than overnight.

A 50% reduction of downforce is a huge change to the technical regs which will require more than just an evolution of the prior year's design. This is not to say that Ferrari or Mclarren's aerodynamic prowess will be of no value when designing their '09 chasis. It will surely help them as it proves they have excellent design capability. But the mere existance of their '08 aero efficiency will do them no good in 2009.

To be honest I don't fully understand how the FIA plans to enforce this aero reduction. I think their enforcement mechanism is the single biggest factor in determining what role aerodynamics plays in F1 in 2009. If the downforce threashold is subjective, as opposed to a hard and fast downforce limit, I think aero will continue to play the biggest role in F1 sucess. If however their is literaly a cap on the amount of downforce cars can run, then I think setup, and driver ability will become more prominant factors in determining performance.

Does anyone have a solid understanding of these new regs and how they will be enforced ? If so it would be great if you could share it with the group.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so" - Mark Twain

donskar
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Re: 2009 design concepts

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Would someone with more time (and ability!) than me please post pictures of the 1978 Arrows A1 and 1979 Arrows A2?

I believe both suggest possible looks for next year's F1 cars.

I think they'd be interesting.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

zac510
zac510
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:58 am

Re: 2009 design concepts

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jwielage wrote:
A 50% reduction of downforce is a huge change to the technical regs which will require more than just an evolution of the prior year's design.
You haven't given any evidence to prove this statement.
No good turn goes unpunished.