Flexible wings 2011

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segedunum
segedunum
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:49 pm

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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bot6 wrote:The Red Bull wing is illegal.
If you can come up with a regulation that stipulates that cars are tested to enforce these regulations while moving and out on track then that's all well and good, but as far as I know they are only enforced via a static test - and it passes.
and the FIA either have decided to turn a blind eye or will eventually design a new test to stop this joke.
They already designed several new tests last year and they failed to pick anything up.

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ringo
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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the rb7 wing is perfectly legal and ethical.
The wing only moves with aerodynamic load. The FIA cannot tell them how to make their wings behave.

There is something call pitching moment that an airfoil has.
Different airfoils have different pitch moment characteristics as it relates to lift coeficient and drag.
Redbull's wings are simply high pitching moment designs.
There's more to them structurally, but they mainly respond to the pitching moment.
Both redbull and Mclaren could be making the same front wing downforce at a given instant, but the rb wing moment characteristics may mean they have much more torsion in the wing at that downforce.

The Fia don't have any valid reasons to stop redbull flexi wings.
A wing is not like a floor or splitter, it's expected to deflect under load. So redbull have an excuse.
For Sure!!

wrcsti
wrcsti
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:46 am

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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HampusA wrote:HAve you seen the latest pics from Scarb? Looks like the whole nose is flexing.

Newey is just insane.
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Funny, I remember me writting back about why not have the nose flex to give the central part of the front wing some AoA to create downforce.

f1gang
f1gang
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:01 pm

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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newey is so wise..how he create it..can anybody have theory or explain its

kakogohrena
kakogohrena
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:31 pm

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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kakogohrena
kakogohrena
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:31 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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painkiller wrote:I dont think the nose is going down. when you look at this comparisson i made u see the angel of the wing is changing. Its going down on the outsides. its from the pole lap of Vettel today. one sec between the pics. one on full speed the other at full breaking.

Rightcklick the images and say open image to see it in full resolution!!
I save 2 screens too.
first - pit-lane
second - start straight
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univex
univex
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:21 am

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Screen gtab from OneHD, camparison of RB7 in Melbourne, at speed and stationary.
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myurr
myurr
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Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:58 pm

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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wrcsti wrote:Funny, I remember me writting back about why not have the nose flex to give the central part of the front wing some AoA to create downforce.
Interestingly it also gives the aero 'neutral' cameras an angle of attack as well. I wonder if there's a rule that says they must be parallel to the reference plane or not..

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djos
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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Well well, The RB7's only had KERS fitted on friday and didn't run it after that due to reliability concerns! :o
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

shelly
shelly
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:18 am

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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Back to back comparison pics posted by kakhogorena seem to show that the two effects of nose drooping and wing flexing atake place at the same time; maybe we can focus in them separately I think.

I agree with ringo that a big issue to be considered is the different pitching moment of wings, which can play a significant role.

I also put there another suggestion: RedBull was one of the first, or maybe the first team to adopt spread tow carbon fiber (the one with bug checkers, see Oxeon site for some examples) since 2009. Maybe their advantage in flexing comes also from using, or mastering better the use compare to other teams, of this new material.

I myself am not sure that you can not achieve same results with usual carbonfiber weave; it also has to be noted that most of the eye visible carbon on rb7 is made of teh usual weave, so maybe they have abandoned spread tow and my suggestion is completely wrong
twitter: @armchair_aero

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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kakogohrena wrote:
painkiller wrote:I dont think the nose is going down. when you look at this comparisson i made u see the angel of the wing is changing. Its going down on the outsides. its from the pole lap of Vettel today. one sec between the pics. one on full speed the other at full breaking.

Rightcklick the images and say open image to see it in full resolution!!
I save 2 screens too.
first - pit-lane
second - start straight
Image
very good picture .Put the curser to the nose camera and you can clearly see it´moving down ! this is relative to the camera position which is taking these pictures.so obviously the tip of the nose is moving in relation to the main structure.Is the nose deflection something to be measured? there is a ruke bodywork cannot move more than 3mm at any time...maybe something goes down 3mm and something goes up 3mm giving you added AoA on the front wing when those two points are very close to each other in x direction it would be almost legal and not detectable in static tests...

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fausto cedros
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Location: Brindisi, Italy

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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I guess a conventional aerodynamic torsion moment would have acted reducing the wing angle of attack. If i understand Ringo explanation well, i wonder what kind of profiles they are using.
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

Gaara
Gaara
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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mclaren113
mclaren113
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:25 am

Re: Flexible wings 2011

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Guys, I think the slot on the side of the front wing has something with the flexibility!